DBWI: Canada is not so fanatically anti Catholic

samcster94

Banned
OOC: Imagine Canada being as anti-Catholic as pre Troubles Northern Ireland, and had some of this OTL when Britain still controlled its foreign policy.
Canada has long been known for its antipathy towards Catholics. The Pope visited last year, but he had to leave the country after a man threw a brick that missed him in a mass demonstration by a "King Billy" society. Although nominally a parliamentary democracy, the primarily Catholic Quebecois are systematically disenfranchised as French is frowned upon due to being "Popery" and the Canadian Constitution states that Catholics cannot serve in Parliament(citing the 1688 Bill of Rights). The United States, in comparison, is far more socially liberal(OOC: :)). In OTL, there was once an atheist chosen to serve the remainder of a President's term after a President resigned(OOC:a Gerald Ford scenario of sorts), and the current President, Mariana Torres, is a bilingual Catholic with a mother from Venezuela and nobody cares. My goal is for an alternate universe where Canada is tolerant and does not flinch at the idea at the idea of the U.S. President doing rosaries.
 
The obvious way to do this, on the face of it, would be to prevent the Sudbury Incident, where Prime Minister Wilfrid Laurier was killed by Catholic fundamentalists whilst visiting the town to give a campaign speech - but on the other hand, there was already a lot of religious tension in the country. The radicals on both sides - the Williamites and the Vatican Legion, in particular - both claim that the roots of their conflict goes back to the English Civil War and before, and whilst this is obviously a major exaggeration (and a cheap way of trying to claim historical legitimacy; the Vatican Legion in particular was only founded from a merger of other groups in the wake of the 'Battle of Calgary' in 1974), Canadian history is full of conflict between the different religions.
With a more tolerant Canada, history would look very different - for one thing, the British Commonwealth may still exist and play a major role in world affairs. OTL, of course, it collapsed and was eventually dissolved after the major diplomatic incident between Britain and Canada in 1968: the secessionists of the ALQ were brutally put down by the Canadian government after rumours that they were planning revolution, and the army was sent into Quebec to restore order. This caused a major diplomatic storm, with the British Prime Minister at the time (Roy Jenkins, in his first few months in office) trying to bring the pressure of the Commonwealth to bear on the Canadian government, in the hopes of some sort of compromise. The Canadians called Jenkins' bluff, and...well, we all know the rest. The Commonwealth was shown up for the paper tiger it was, and a wave of revolutions kicked off across Africa, with harsh retaliation on the part of the British occupying troops and - eventually - crisis in virtually all African countries. It's no exaggeration to say, then, that a more tolerant Canada would quite literally rewrite history and redraw the borders of the world.
 
Another good POD is to keep the Paulician Society from forming. Without those radicals constantly stirring the pot, eventually compromise could have been made.
 
Another good POD is to keep the Paulician Society from forming. Without those radicals constantly stirring the pot, eventually compromise could have been made.

Very true - the ceasefire of 1981 could have turned into something permanent if it hadn't been for their delegation walking out of the peace talks and subsequently blowing up that ferry in Vancouver. Canadian history is full of examples of those thrice-damned Paulicians killing the peacemakers of each side, just to try and keep fighting their pointless war.
Then again, without the Paulicians, there'd probably still be a lot of mistrust between the communities - let's not forget that legal discrimination in Canada goes back to the 1700s, and as we all know, Canadians have long memories. Not for nothing did Taylor call it 'Bosnia in America'...
 
Very true - the ceasefire of 1981 could have turned into something permanent if it hadn't been for their delegation walking out of the peace talks and subsequently blowing up that ferry in Vancouver. Canadian history is full of examples of those thrice-damned Paulicians killing the peacemakers of each side, just to try and keep fighting their pointless war.
Then again, without the Paulicians, there'd probably still be a lot of mistrust between the communities - let's not forget that legal discrimination in Canada goes back to the 1700s, and as we all know, Canadians have long memories. Not for nothing did Taylor call it 'Bosnia in America'...

I still feel like the worst part is how they don't just kill Catholics, they kill Anglicans and even Radical Reformed Christians too. I guess that's what happens when you take out half the Bible. Plus, they are just so hell-bent on furthering their war they have missions in the neo-Qing lands, where anyone who isn't their weird brand of messianic Taoist is brutally disemboweled. Plus, you just can't tell when someone is a Paulician until they start shooting.
 
I still feel like the worst part is how they don't just kill Catholics, they kill Anglicans and even Radical Reformed Christians too. I guess that's what happens when you take out half the Bible. Plus, they are just so hell-bent on furthering their war they have missions in the neo-Qing lands, where anyone who isn't their weird brand of messianic Taoist is brutally disemboweled. Plus, you just can't tell when someone is a Paulician until they start shooting.

It certainly does say something about a sect when their favourite Bible quote is 'I came not to bring peace but a sword'. Archbishop Paisley certainly knew what he was talking about when he called them 'Christ's enemies' - on Canadian national television, no less. Killing members of their own 'side' in the war - it's despicable, but just what we've come to expect by now; they see anyone not as dedicated to their cause as they are as an enemy, regardless of their church. As for their involvement on the Qing Frontier, one hears a lot of stories coming out of Tiaoxen - some of them undoubtedly false (heaven knows the Baha'i and the Ahmadiyyas want to discredit them, if only to stop the foreign money from flowing in), but some confirmed beyond doubt by the authorities. In any case, it certainly says something that nobody really discusses any more whether things like the Shining Peak Massacre actually happened - nobody doubts that the Paulicians would do it.
 
I think the POD needs to be earlier. After taking Quebec, the British government seriously considered confirming the Catholic Church in its role in the province (and also extending its borders to the Ohio River!). You could change that. Ironically, in order to give Canada a Protestant majority they heavily encouraged settlement of Ulster Protestants, which had the effect of greatly reducing the Protestant minority in Ireland.
 
A good point - then again, though, there's a chance that that might have backfired, by causing Protestant resentment against some perceived special treatment of the Catholics. This would mean a different civil war in Canada, with Protestants seeing themselves as the embattled minority, but war nonetheless. On the other hand, recognising the Church might have been just the thing to stop it, causing some spirit of conciliation to be enshrined as a precedent in Canadian history. The King, and influential factions of his government, were firmly against this, though - the memory of the Second English Civil War ran deep in London.
Of course, on a lighter note, Canada without Irish settlement would have a huge influence on culture. I swear half the Protestant population at least claim Irish descent, and turn the rivers orange every year. If only they could learn something about religious toleration from Ireland...
 
Maybe you could do away with the bloody Canadian Front of the Fenian Uprising. That caused a lot of anti-catholic sentiment as the French Catholics were blamed for the violence, as they were both "Papist invaders." Much of the bloodshed was between Irish Catholic Fenians and Ulster Protestants, so if the settlement of Ulster Protestants is reduced this might be less of a bloodbath.
 
I think the POD needs to be earlier. After taking Quebec, the British government seriously considered confirming the Catholic Church in its role in the province (and also extending its borders to the Ohio River!). You could change that. Ironically, in order to give Canada a Protestant majority they heavily encouraged settlement of Ulster Protestants, which had the effect of greatly reducing the Protestant minority in Ireland.

Much chance they had of that, when the French king still claims his right to the territory. Perhaps if the so-called French Revolution had been a success, the Canadien's loud opposition to it would have bonded them with their fellow - subjects?
 
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