DBWI: British Automobile Industry Collapses

[Mr. Magi]

But whilst we're here, lets be honest the UK did produce some dogs eggs. The Morris Marina (which lets be honest was a horrid little rot box and it was a failure for a reason) for example, as 'beloved' by the chaps on Top Gear (and plummeting piano's) and they've never stopped digging and poking fun at some of the more at best quirky and in some cases unreliable cars we made. A lot of these came from the 70's and early 80's which is seen as a bit of a dark time for UK car design. This mainly stemmed from the issue of swapping over production of fairly simple cars to ones that were bigger, more complex and our first foray's into 'affordable' sports cars. Back then Lotus really did mean Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious and it wasn't until the mid 80's when the Eclipse and Elan came out that really helped banish those old ghosts.

Eh, each company has a clunker or a line that rightfully gets dogged on. The Cheville for example from Chevy is a notorious flop; a known fireball of a car since the first three years didn't have a proper firewall to fit the body; a consequence of trying to keep engine speed and performance due to the shrinking size of cars. The rejiggered Malibu was kind of a stopgap to make up for it until they got a license to just lease the Opel Ascona for its replacement.

And I actually have seen Trabant made Allegros sometimes on the road; they aren't common, but when you make a model for a couple decades, you make a lot of them.

 

[CaekDaemon]

The Morris Marina (which lets be honest was a horrid little rot box and it was a failure for a reason) for example, as 'beloved' by the chaps on Top Gear (and plummeting piano's) and they've never stopped digging and poking fun at some of the more at best quirky and in some cases unreliable cars we made.

But to be fair, Top Gear has definitely done more good for the cause of the British motor industry than harm. It isn't just the advertisement, but the fact that it shines an honest (and often brutally so) mirror on the industry. They're willing to say that a design is bad, and seeing how often they get cars that have yet to go into production, that helps a lot; they put the car through its paces and find out what is wrong, but more importantly than that, they *say* what is wrong when the manufacturers still have a chance to sort it out. It isn't just the big things like the nought to sixty time, but things like wonky door seals, problems with the steering response and stiffness, the readability of the dash and the panels. It helps that it is a massive show with a ton of viewers all around the world, but the ability to be honest about what's wrong helps far, far more.

Besides, we've got some cool specials out of it; the challenge where they were allowed to use the front and back halves of any two different cars available in the UK at the time at see which monstrosity they welded together was able to meet the challenges of regular, race and cross country driving is still the best Top Gear special

 

[steamboy]

I thought May's Rolls Rover was...well a crime against nature but at least it didn't break in half like Clarkson's Jag Lander

 

[CaekDaemon]

I thought May's Rolls Rover was...well a crime against nature but at least it didn't break in half like Clarkson's Jag Lander

Hammond's Aston Marmini as a convertible was surprisingly good...

...till the producers made him take it through the extreme-but-everyday challenge of a car wash

 

[GrahamB]

Late to the party as usual, which is a shame since my Dad used to work for Leyland Trucks so this thread is right up my alley. Apologies for the quote spam.

Cars in that universe were made in Japan, Germany, and to a lesser extent, Korea, a lot more.

The first two I buy (decent-to-good cars all around), but Korea? Wait, wasn't that related to the timeline when the Korean War stalemated instead of the North winning at Pusan? That's a huge difference if there's a non-Kim government in Korea into the 90's when they started opening up and offering cheapo knockoff Suzukis OTL.

At least Honda had the sense to go back to making mopeds rather than keep trying to build cars no one wanted.

I continue to adore my Super Cub, as does anyone with a lick of sense buying a first bike (not a moped, it hasn't pedals, nor is the engine mounted on the swingarm).

Couple that with the partnership between AMC and BMC and the 70’s saw plenty of Union Jack patches on jackets and backpacks in high schools across America.

Who would have thought America would have gone hard on 'cafe racer' culture? Harleys are great for the longer-haul roads they've got in America (and here in Canada), the larger fuel tanks and that sweet Triumph-inspired triple really make bikes like the 750's iconic. Can you imagine if they'd stayed independent and catered to the loud-pipe 'fat bike' crowd? Ugh.

You may not get where you're going quickly, but it'll take the rest of the day to remove the grin on your face.

I can't think of a better sentence to describe a Donkey in good running condition (which is increasingly rare unless you import and somehow avoid the tariffs). Extra credit for a good line!

...an engineer in the Canadian factory solved the problem...

That was almost a running joke in the 70's and 80's, something wouldn't work right until the Canadian branch sends back an engineering drawing saying "you mounted X backwards" or something that sounds so obvious in hindsight (India's becoming the go-to fixers these days, good on them). That was my Dad in the 90's, you can thank him for the new Leopard Bus chassis dominating the market.

Besides, we've got some cool specials out of it...

My personal favourites remain the Car vs. Not-Car races, like the 1950's Great Train Race, or when James and Hammond raced The Royal Mail. I feel obligated to mention the episode when they tried to race the famous Paris-Dakar rally, but they only had a weekend to film so they raced from Paris to Dacre Ontario. Jeremy getting stuck in the Tim Hortons drive-through is still hilarious. Didn't they have that novelty 'Indestructible Moose Ahead' road sign hung up in the studio for years afterwards?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

I continue to adore my Super Cub, as does anyone with a lick of sense buying a first bike (not a moped, it hasn't pedals, nor is the engine mounted on the swingarm).

BSA nearly went bust when they stole the Super Cub's engine design to update the Bantam and got sued to hell and back.

 

[GrahamB]

stole the Super Cub's engine design to update the Bantam

That was an idiot decision by some corporate muppet (can't be bothered to look up the name) who thought it'd be cheaper than just designing a new sub 200 cc engine. It's not like it was hard considering how fast they threw one together after the Bantam fiasco. Shame the name was poison after that, they had to rebrand the new ones Robins, which was a merry source of jokes about tricycles among my friends.
Speaking of Robins, do you think that idea of changing the Reliant to have the single wheel at the back and adopt front wheel drive like the updated BSA Scout had any merit or was the choice to end production in the 90's the right thing to do?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

It's not like it was hard considering how fast they threw one together after the Bantam fiasco. Shame the name was poison after that, they had to rebrand the new ones Robins, which was a merry source of jokes about tricycles among my friends.

Why did they call their new bike the Robin?
Because BSA are robin bastards.

 

[GrahamB]

Oh Lawks that joke takes me back! Well done!

 

[Ameck16]

I read some weird timeline where the 70's was a Britain Screw and Thatcher eventually ended up Prime Minister. Cars in that universe were made in Japan, Germany, and to a lesser extent, Korea, a lot more.

Is it "all roads lead to.....", cause it was a roller coaster to read, Societ Union Collapsing so pathetically, the USA buying into voodoo supply-side economics, Quebec staying, Chinese become a Quasi later Full on capitalist nation all because De Gaulle resigned rather than declaring marshall law.

 

[Ameck16]

we've got some cool specials out of it

Car vs Public transport Lisbon to Hongkong, Seeing Jeremy car break down in the middle of Siberia surrounded by bears was amazing to watch.

 

[samcster94]

Is it "all roads lead to.....", cause it was a roller coaster to read, Societ Union Collapsing so pathetically, the USA buying into voodoo supply-side economics, Quebec staying, Chinese become a Quasi later Full on communist nation all because De Gaulle resigned rather than declaring marshall law.

Yes, that's the one. They had Northern Ireland become pretty screwed up in it too.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Yes, that's the one. They had Northern Ireland become pretty screwed up in it too.

Yes the Government came down hard on the civil rights abuses in the late 50's and early 60's nipping any trouble in the bud, even though they did have to shut down Stormont to do it. What sort of idiotic fools would have let that fester the way that book describes. Breaking up the RUC into county forces and ensuring they had proportional representation from both communities was key.

 

[GrahamB]

Quebec staying

Well, to be fair she never really left. The referendum might have ended in a Separate victory and a premature Declaration of Independence but once the provincial government actually realized what real independence would require they were able to negotiate that odd autonomy arrangement with Ottawa that I don't see lasting past the 2020s. There's already talk about reentering Confederation. That said, the whole affair did wonders to set precedent for finally getting issues with some First Nations resolved, so it wasn't a total bodge job.
I'm very glad the world dodged the 'Voodoo Economics' scare. I kind of liked H.W. Bush, he knew how to handle international coalitions even if he's kind of forgettable over all. What's the old saying 'boring politics means something's going right'?

We're getting off topic though, let's get things back to cars.
What do you think of the idea of GM ending the Pontiac brand? They're the company's performance marquee and really popular right now (although I'm not keen on the GTO's new grille, it looks like a flat BMW to me) but what if they'd dropped Pontiac instead of the 'legacy' Buick when they restructured after the bankruptcy scare in the 2000's? Would they try something totally tone deaf and try to make Cadillac a performance brand?
Related, do you think British Leyland would still have bought the Opel/Saab/Saturn group after the breakup or are those badges doomed?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Related, do you think British Leyland would still have bought the Opel/Saab/Saturn group after the breakup or are those badges doomed?

There's actually a lot of opposition to BL owning those brands, and Vauxhall. The EEC Anti Monopoly Commission wants them split off into a separate company headquartered in Germany.

 

[GrahamB]

The EEC Anti Monopoly Commission wants them split off into a separate company headquartered in Germany.

I'm fine with that, actually. BL already lets its various regional divisions operate semi-autonomously so giving Opel total autonomy and just some link between the boards of directors or something would be totally feasible. Much as I'd like to see Saab go independent again I don't think Sweeden will subsidize the company as a (Swedish equivalent to a) Crown Corporation like they used to.

Have you seen Audi's new concept for bringing back Lancia? I know everyone wants them to bring back the Stratos but basing the new car off the S8 platform should keep them from becoming 'niche' and give the Jaguar RF a run for its money.

 

[Mr. Magi]

The first two I buy (decent-to-good cars all around), but Korea? Wait, wasn't that related to the timeline when the Korean War stalemated instead of the North winning at Pusan? That's a huge difference if there's a non-Kim government in Korea into the 90's when they started opening up and offering cheapo knockoff Suzukis OTL.

Possibly, though I don't know how splitting a country, especially since the south was basically a dictatorship in its short lifespan would've helped all that much beyond just having a less insane financial policy. Taiwan didn't take off all that well, and mainly only looks so good compared to China due to the Gang of Four's time in power. By the by, I asked my folks and I think the crappy car bootleg that my mom bought back when they tried exporting was something by Daewoo... which explains everything.

Japan does make pretty good motor bikes and larger vehicles; I could see them succeeding with a few changes to Honda's attempt to break into the market. Germany's market was also pretty good; it wasn't until the 1990s that they began their decline. Shame that Opel went out of business; it just leaves Trabant now, which I imagine is a strange irony in that.

Who would have thought America would have gone hard on 'cafe racer' culture? Harleys are great for the longer-haul roads they've got in America (and here in Canada), the larger fuel tanks and that sweet Triumph-inspired triple really make bikes like the 750's iconic. Can you imagine if they'd stayed independent and catered to the loud-pipe 'fat bike' crowd? Ugh.

My mom probably would've stayed interested in biking, since she started with a Harley before going for AMC's stuff due to just not needing to go out as far as she thought she wanted.

Is it "all roads lead to.....", cause it was a roller coaster to read, Societ Union Collapsing so pathetically, the USA buying into voodoo supply-side economics, Quebec staying, Chinese become a Quasi later Full on capitalist nation all because De Gaulle resigned rather than declaring marshall law.

That last one becoming the case is absolutely insane, because they failed to understand Mao and De Gaulle as people. The US swinging to supply side is at least semi-believable, since the Chicago school had some influence in very economically liberal wings during the '60s. It kind of petered out after that though. Maybe if there was a more notable economist or politicians who were into it... though lord know I'd hate that world.

What do you think of the idea of GM ending the Pontiac brand? They're the company's performance marquee and really popular right now (although I'm not keen on the GTO's new grille, it looks like a flat BMW to me) but what if they'd dropped Pontiac instead of the 'legacy' Buick when they restructured after the bankruptcy scare in the 2000's? Would they try something totally tone deaf and try to make Cadillac a performance brand?
Related, do you think British Leyland would still have bought the Opel/Saab/Saturn group after the breakup or are those badges doomed?

It'd be strange, but we've had stranger. Ford basically ended its own life as anything but a marquee just because of refusing to admit that no one wanted to buy the Edsel for example.

As the Opel/Saab/Saturn group, I think that Chevrolet would've bought them if Leyland didn't. They lost out on the bidding war for the marquees after all. They also had a history with them, since they did license Opel models before, like the Ascona and the Vectra in the past for some of their midrange options.