DBWI: Britain doesn't nuke Japan

70 years ago today, the RAF nuked Hiroshima and then went on to nuke Nagasaki 3 days later. At the time, the bombings were justified because it was thought that an invasion of Japan would have cost far more Japanese and Allied lives. To put this in further context, the allies had just fought an exceptionally bloody campaign from Normandy right through to the heart of Germany. Churchill himself argued that it was better to win the war with the nuclear bomb than to achieve the same result by spilling endless quantities of Imperial and allied blood.

OTOH, there are those who argue that nuking Japan was not necessary. The Royal Navy had blockaded all of Japan's major ports and was in effect starving the country to death. They say that without the nukes, it would only have been a matter of time before Japan surrendered. Some in this camp also suggest that by nuking Japan, Churchill was trying to intimidate the Soviet Union and preserve the British world order. So my question is as follows: Would Japan have surrendered without the 2 nuclear bombs and if so how long would it have taken?

OOC: In this universe WW1 ended in 1915. Russian defeats were enough to prompt the Bolshevik revolution. As the war did not go on for so long, Britain emerged much richer and in virtually no debt as compared to OTL. After the scuttling of the German fleet, Britain was able to return to the 2 power standard. Even though the war was short there was still significant destruction and bloodshed and so France's demands in the Versailles treaty were just as harsh. British relations with Japan continued more or less as OTL. The Anglo Japanese treaty was discontinued due to pressure from Australia and New Zealand who held a deep mistrust of Japanese intentions.
 
If it wasn't the brits it would have been the americans, if it wasnt the americans it would have been the french. If no one used the bomb which was unlikely because you had three countries that were working on it like crazy. Then it would have been a massive land war on the home islands which would have killed far more people.

The japanese government had by this point lost their mind. They thought that if they escalated enough they could win, they were wrong.
 
We proably wouldn't get the Anglo-American split for one and US being a key part of OTL's Non-Aligned, the US was promised a sphere of influence in Japan as to contain Communism and they prepared Operation Downfall. The cancelling of Operation Downfall along with with the Nukes led to alienation from Great Britain, the return of isolationism and the election of Henry Wallace in 1948 who pursued an "independent" foreign policy away from the Cold War.
 
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We proably wouldn't get the Anglo-American split for one and US being a key part of OTL's Non-Aligned, the US was promised a sphere of influence in Japan as to contain Communism and they prepared Operation Downfall. The cancelling of Operation Downfall along with with the Nukes led to alienation from Great Britain, the return of isolationism and the election of Henry Wallace in 1948 who pursued an "independent" foreign policy away from the Cold War.


I never understood the butt hurt that wallace had over that decision. We got our sphere of influence it was just over korea not japan proper. The brits gave us influance over a part of the japanese empire. And the independent foregn policy had us working with the brits and the french on a lot of the containment jobs.

Also it was a good decision for us to focus on korea and the brits on Japan. The Koreans hated the Japanese, sorry correction hate the Japanese. I don't think its possible to make the two of them place nice. If the Koreans had been forced to share the same patron as japan they would have gone comunist just on principle.

At the very least it prevented a partition of korea between the western countries and the soviets.
 
Well if the Americans had occupied Japan instead of us then we probably wouldn't have had the disaster at the last cricket World Cup when the even the Japanese team beat us!

More seriously those bombs,horrific as the after effects were (and still are) probably did on balance save lives. Operation Downfall would have covered the home islands with Allied and Japanese blood. Japan would probably still be under occupation even now.
 
The Armed Forces of many a nation on both sides of the World Wall went a bit crazy over the the Bomb after the dropping of Urchin and Mickey. Whole concepts like tanks and interceptor aircraft where judged, reevaluated and sometimes, erroneously, considered obsolete. Before the actual dropping of the bombs, before the test of Axel in the Australian Outback, it was viewed by most of the people who knew of it as simply a very big bomb. It was after that you had your "For all the earth will be devoured, by the fire of my zeal" and so on. So no use of the Bomb in anger might lead to a different outlook and relationship to other weapons.
 
Well if the Americans had occupied Japan instead of us then we probably wouldn't have had the disaster at the last cricket World Cup when the even the Japanese team beat us!

More seriously those bombs,horrific as the after effects were (and still are) probably did on balance save lives. Operation Downfall would have covered the home islands with Allied and Japanese blood. Japan would probably still be under occupation even now.

Its Japan let them have it, I mean look at them. The Russians wont give back those islands in the north as per the peace treaty, the chinese regularly threaten to nuke them, and the Koreans cant go a day with out reminding them that their former colony has surpassed them economically.
 
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