DBWI: Birch Bayh defeated in 1980

Gorrister

Gorrister

Now, I realize that this is quite obscure for many, hell, any Hoosiers I know of barely remember this race, if at all, but it was quite interesting, Incumbent Senator Birch Bayh was being challenged by Reagen Republican, Rep. Danforth Quayle, who looked set to crush Bayh in polling due to Reagen's dominance after the first debate, but in the end, Bayh managed to pull off the narrowest of upsets, winning by just .4%, now, what would happen if Bayh had lost Re Election? How would the '84 Primaries go without Bayh's involvement. How would Indiana be affected? What would be Quayle's future if he won? How would the period between 1989-1997 go without Bayh? And how would his son Evan survive in Politics, seeing as many believe he only won his election to the House by his father investing money into the race?

What would happen if Dan Quayle defeated Birch Bayh back in 1980?
 

birdboy2000

Banned
Wasn't Quayle an idiot and a gaffe-machine? I imagine if he wins (probably by keeping his mouth shut a little more) he serves a term, which he spends embarrassing Indiana, and loses the next election in a landslide.
 

Kung Fucious

Dan who? *Lycos, go get Dan Quayle*

Oh, him. Seems like a minor US Congressman, surprised he almost beat out Bayh to begin with.

No Birch Bayh in the 80's, though, is one hell of a butterfly. You probably wouldn't see Kennedy challenge Reagan in 84, from what I understand he was waffling before Bayh convinced him he had his back in the Senate.
 

thekingsguard

Indiana would have begun the slip to GOP control ten years sooner. He and Tip O'Neal working with Reagan and his successors really mitigated a lot of the damage to the Democratic party that smashing defeats by the GOP could have inflicted.

Bayh would not have been the legislative titan he was under President's Bush and Powell, especially working under the latter to get the 27th-28th amendments to the US Constitution passed in the nineties - Bayh authored more of the constitution than any man since the founding fathers, and even after retirement was the very picture of an elder statesman. Damned shame he never ran for President, but settling for being the latter 20th centuries Henry Clay is a pretty good legacy.

Maybe without getting to ride on daddie's coatails, his worthless son wouldn't be the embarrassment he is today.

No telling about Quayle, can't find much on him - what I can basically makes him look like a bit of a fool.

So with this defeat, Bayh's legacy would be smaller, alienist spared the blemish of his son, we'd very likely have three less Constitutional Amendments - including Term Limitations, so less new blood in Congress :eek: - and the productive partnership between Republican Presidents and Democratic Congress that lasted all those years may be altogether different.
 

terrellk

birdboy2000 said:
Wasn't Quayle an idiot and a gaffe-machine? I imagine if he wins (probably by keeping his mouth shut a little more) he serves a term, which he spends embarrassing Indiana, and loses the next election in a landslide.
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This is a common misconception based on the reporting from the anti-Quayle Indianapolis Star. Bayh's friends in the state's media were able to paint Quayle as inexperienced and foolish. I've heard the man speak recently and he seems like a very humble, reasonable, and serious individual. I think he'd perform ably if he was given a chance. He could be in the senate leadership today, I think, if he'd won in 1980.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Dammit.
 
Emperor Charles V

Emperor Charles V

Well without Kennedy, the "Bullfrog of Hyannis" running against Reagan in 1984, the race would be much closer. Gary Hart would probably get the nomination and pick a more sane VP as opposed to that racist nut Bumpers to "balance the ticket." Even Geraldine Ferraro would be a better pick! I watched the 1984 VP debate between Bumpers and Bush and it was just hilarious how Bumpers gradually self-destructed. The "Orval Faubus was an amazing governor" gaffe was the biggest highlight IMO.

And Kennedy wasn't a bad candidate at all. It was Bumpers and Chappaquiddick that destroyed him. And he didn't win not one state (except for D.C. of course). Not even Massachusetts! I think Kennedy would still be in the senate today if he didn't run in 1984. It was his disastrous campaign and his false reputation as a "Dixiecrat-lover" and the rebirth of the whole Chappaquiddick thing that ultimately cost him his senate seat in 1994 when he lost to former vice-president Romney.
 

Tayya

Emperor Charles V said:
Well without Kennedy, the "Bullfrog of Hyannis" running against Reagan in 1984, the race would be much closer. Gary Hart would probably get the nomination and pick a more sane VP as opposed to that racist nut Bumpers to "balance the ticket." Even Geraldine Ferraro would be a better pick! I watched the 1984 VP debate between Bumpers and Bush and it was just hilarious how Bumpers gradually self-destructed. The "Orval Faubus was an amazing governor" gaffe was the biggest highlight IMO.

And Kennedy wasn't a bad candidate at all. It was Bumpers and Chappaquiddick that destroyed him. And he didn't win not one state (except for D.C. of course). Not even Massachusetts! I think Kennedy would still be in the senate today if he didn't run in 1984. It was his disastrous campaign and his false reputation as a "Dixiecrat-lover" and the rebirth of the whole Chappaquiddick thing that ultimately cost him his senate seat in 1994 when he lost to former vice-president Romney.
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Geraldine who? A random New York Congresswoman who failed to run for Senate in the early 90's? Gee, you had waited a long time to use that random name, hadn't you?
 
Emperor Charles V

Emperor Charles V

Tayya said:
Geraldine who? A random New York Congresswoman who failed to run for Senate in the early 90's? Gee, you had waited a long time to use that random name, hadn't you?
Click to expand...

Well my Political Science class had a challenge where we had to come up with a Democratic ticket that would fare even worse against Reagan in 1984 than Kennedy/Bumpers and my best guess was Walter Mondale/Geraldine Ferrarro. Reagan could've possibly have broken 70% under this scenario. However, this is highly ASB as there was no way Mondale would run for let alone receive the Democratic nomination in 1984 with horrible memories of the Carter administration still in the minds of the American people. And picking Geraldine Ferrarro would hurt him even more as she was a virtual unknown, had no experience (except for a few terms in the house where she really did nothing of note) and was a woman which unfortunately was a disadvantage back in 1984. I was really looking for a random unexperienced Democratic congresswoman, Ferrarro was just the one I found.
 

Kung Fucious

thekingsguard said:
Indiana would have begun the slip to GOP control ten years sooner. He and Tip O'Neal working with Reagan and his successors really mitigated a lot of the damage to the Democratic party that smashing defeats by the GOP could have inflicted.

Bayh would not have been the legislative titan he was under President's Bush and Powell, especially working under the latter to get the 27th-28th amendments to the US Constitution passed in the nineties - Bayh authored more of the constitution than any man since the founding fathers, and even after retirement was the very picture of an elder statesman. Damned shame he never ran for President, but settling for being the latter 20th centuries Henry Clay is a pretty good legacy.

Maybe without getting to ride on daddie's coatails, his worthless son wouldn't be the embarrassment he is today.

No telling about Quayle, can't find much on him - what I can basically makes him look like a bit of a fool.

So with this defeat, Bayh's legacy would be smaller, alienist spared the blemish of his son, we'd very likely have three less Constitutional Amendments - including Term Limitations, so less new blood in Congress :eek: - and the productive partnership between Republican Presidents and Democratic Congress that lasted all those years may be altogether different.
Click to expand...

I can think of worse things than being the 20th century's Henry Clay, and US Politics would be a hell of a lot messier without the ERA (27th) and 4 year congressional terms w/ limits (Jesus, can you imagine what it was like before? You'd do nothing but campaign).

I heard talk that Powell debated picking him for VP, but went with Gore instead. Can't blame him, though, he was still at the top of his game in '94, and Powell needed the muscle in the senate after Kennedy left.
 

Kung Fucious

Emperor Charles V said:
OOC: He wasn't but a few gaffes could paint him in a wrong light.
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OOC: Yeah, but there's a big jump between a "gaffe" and saying "the widely hated Governor of my state who I actively ran against was actually pretty great". Plus, he was actively recruited throughout the 80's to run, doesn't sound like the party would do that if he was some fringe candidate.
 

thekingsguard

Kung Fucious said:
I can think of worse things than being the 20th century's Henry Clay, and US Politics would be a hell of a lot messier without the ERA (27th) and 4 year congressional terms w/ limits (Jesus, can you imagine what it was like before? You'd do nothing but campaign).

I heard talk that Powell debated picking him for VP, but went with Gore instead. Can't blame him, though, he was still at the top of his game in '94, and Powell needed the muscle in the senate after Kennedy left.
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That term limits amendment really showed what a class act he was too - all the other senators were exempt from the two term limitation until they were retired or beaten, but Bayh declined to run for reelection the moment it was passed. Plus, it kept his son from spending too much time in the House.

Yeah, Powell took a lot of fire from the GOP for nominating a Dem for VP, but after Bush got assassinated, used it to show how we needed to work together come together as a country. Never had any issues getting things passed from either party or house after that. I'll never understand why he didn't run for a second term.
 
Emperor Charles V

Emperor Charles V

thekingsguard said:
That term limits amendment really showed what a class act he was too - all the other senators were exempt from the two term limitation until they were retired or beaten, but Bayh declined to run for reelection the moment it was passed. Plus, it kept his son from spending too much time in the House.

Yeah, Powell took a lot of fire from the GOP for nominating a Dem for VP, but after Bush got assassinated, used it to show how we needed to work together come together as a country. Never had any issues getting things passed from either party or house after that. I'll never understand why he didn't run for a second term.
Click to expand...

If Powell ran for a second term, we wouldn't have had President McCain elected in '96 who caused the very costly war in the Balkans. Therefore President Dean wouldn't have defeated McCain in a landslide in 2000 ending the lock on the presidency the GOP had for two straight decades. Republicans had everything after '96. A Republican president, now a Republican Vice-President (Mitt Romney) and a majority in both Houses in the senate. During McCain's presidency they lost all this. Although they control the Senate now, it amazes me how the GOP has not had one president this century (except for 20 days in McCain's lame duck period if you want to count that).
 

JVM

Emperor Charles V said:
Well without Kennedy, the "Bullfrog of Hyannis" running against Reagan in 1984, the race would be much closer. Gary Hart would probably get the nomination and pick a more sane VP as opposed to that racist nut Bumpers to "balance the ticket." Even Geraldine Ferraro would be a better pick! I watched the 1984 VP debate between Bumpers and Bush and it was just hilarious how Bumpers gradually self-destructed. The "Orval Faubus was an amazing governor" gaffe was the biggest highlight IMO.

And Kennedy wasn't a bad candidate at all. It was Bumpers and Chappaquiddick that destroyed him. And he didn't win not one state (except for D.C. of course). Not even Massachusetts! I think Kennedy would still be in the senate today if he didn't run in 1984. It was his disastrous campaign and his false reputation as a "Dixiecrat-lover" and the rebirth of the whole Chappaquiddick thing that ultimately cost him his senate seat in 1994 when he lost to former vice-president Romney.
Click to expand...

Kennedy had such a solid legislative record before his presidential campaign. It's like he got so drunk to the idea of attaining the office his brothers fought so hard for that he just pissed everything that made him Ted Kennedy away. His post-senatorial career was downright embarrassing and pretty much destroyed the family image. A lot of people say the reason John F. Kennedy, Jr. sat out election to the New York Senate seat was fear of being associated with his uncle. A lot of people forget before 1983 he was one of the best members of the Senate. Then he went crazy.

Of course none of that covers how fucking nuts Bumpers went. I'd swear he had some kind of early onset dementia. He clearly wasn't all there, and hasn't been since.
 
Emperor Charles V

Emperor Charles V

JVM said:
Of course none of that covers how fucking nuts Bumpers went. I'd swear he had some kind of early onset dementia. He clearly wasn't all there, and hasn't been since.
Click to expand...

Well a lot probably had to do with the death of his daughter in a car accident in 1982. After that he was never the same.
 
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