DBWI: Best & Worst Vicroys of BNA

OOC: Butteflies are a pain in the ass if they are taken to the absolute. If you adhere to butteflies in the absolute nth of a degree nobody is ever born. Winston Churchill? Nope. John Kennedy? Nope. And we make up a bunch of random people who no one would give a damn about and that is not fun. Butteflies to a dramatic degree are fine. Butteflies in the genetic pool in the absolute are plain boring and creativly stagnant.

Likewise, this is nothing that drastic. It is not a 65 million year POD. No. It is only a few centuries.

This is a bit of fun yes, but really butterflies would mean that everyone after the POD would never be born, that's not an extreme, that's just fact.
 
If you don't like plausibility, the ASB forum beckons.
I take that as an insult (along with the former thing) and respectfully ask that you get off the high horse on this issue.

Its not ASB. Some of the same people are born. Who cares? That happens in every ATL and it is not ASB. MLK becoming the astronaut ruler of Mars is ASB. Becoming a politician after perhaps a somewhat similar life (though I never said how it went in any great degree) is not.

Frankly, there have been way too many debates and off topic arguments in threads lately for me to really want another one.

This is a bit of fun yes, but really butterflies would mean that everyone after the POD would never be born, that's not an extreme, that's just fact.
Not necessarily. Butteflies are ripples. However, those ripples do not entail absolutely that your grandma won't find your grandpa and lead to you, albeit an alternate you, especially if its not that far back in the scheme of things. And frankly butterflies are selective in their usage and adherence in any timeline or universe on the part of the creators. And frankly, I find the belief in total butterflies to the nth degree and the idea that anyone who doesn't adhere to that as ASB (and this isn't aimed at you in any way; its a general thing) a bit TL snobbish. Make no mistake, absolute adherence is not Richard Nixon not becoming a politician. It would be of course Nixon never being born. So butteflies to a degree are nice. Butterflies in an absolute total adherence are boring and far too hard and time extensive to track and measure if trackable and measurable at all.
 
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Hendryk

Banned
Butterflies in an absolute total adherence are boring and far too hard and time extensive to track and measure if trackable and measurable at all.
This is like saying "I want to play soccer, but not being to touch the ball with your hands is boring."

If you want to do real AH, you respect the basic rules of the genre. Otherwise, you do ASB stuff.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
This is like saying "I want to play soccer, but not being to touch the ball with your hands is boring."

If you want to do real AH, you respect the basic rules of the genre. Otherwise, you do ASB stuff.

This is the internet, if you can't play nicely on this forum go make your own and enforce the rules there.
 
This is like saying "I want to play soccer, but not being to touch the ball with your hands is boring."

If you want to do real AH, you respect the basic rules of the genre. Otherwise, you do ASB stuff.

I do respect the basic rules of the genre. And this is what I'm talking about. To be AH does not mean having butteflies in the absolute total and at all times. If you do, nothing recognizable exists at all. Then who gives a damn. It is a bureaucratic view of how to go about it and a case of someone liking something so much, they kill it and make it not worth liking. Butteflies are all and good. Butterflies to the point of a total ripple effect to the level where nobody exists and we have to make up names is over doing it and far more research and work than warranted if it can be researched at all.

Every timeline does that same thing. So therefore those would be ASB by your laid out qualifications. But frankly, I've seen ASB. I know what ASB is. And this is not ASB, nor are those.

Now its over with. There have been too many debates and too much offtopic lately and I am tired of it.
 
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OOC: Not sure when we're positing the AmRev was quashed or how the rebels were treated, but here's some thoughts. Obviously, few of these people would be recognizable, but hey the point is to have a bit of fun.

1st
1779: Jeffrey Amherst
2nd 1784: Thomas Hutchinson
3rd 1789: Edmund Burke
4th 1794: Edmund Burke
5th 1799: Arthur Wellesley
6th 1804: Arthur Wellesley
7th 1809: William Wilberforce
8th 1814: James Madison
9th 1819: Rufus King (lots of jokes about his name)
10th 1824: Sir Henry Clay
11th 1829: Sir Henry Clay
12th 1834: Sir Henry Clay
13th 1839: William Lyon Mackenzie
14th 1844: William Lyon Mackenzie
15th 1849: Thomas Babington Maucaulay
16th 1854: Samuel Houston
17th 1859: Sir Robert Edward Lee
18th 1864: Abraham Lincoln
19th 1869: Sir James G. Blaine
20th 1874: James Macdonald
21st 1879: James Macdonald
22nd 1884: Joseph Chamberlain
23rd 1889: Alexander Mackenzie
24th 1894: Joseph Chamberlain
25th 1899: Sir Mark Hanna
26th 1904: William Jennings Bryan
27th 1909: Theodore Roosevelt, Marquis of Panama :cool:
28th 1914: Theodore Roosevelt, Marquis of Panama
29th 1919: Arthur Currie
30th 1924: H.G. Wells
31st 1929: William Lyon Mackenzie King
32nd 1934: William Lyon Mackenzie King
33rd 1939: Winston Churchill
34th 1944: Winston Churchill
35th 1949: Kermit Roosevelt
36th 1954: Douglas MacArthur
37th 1959: Douglas MacArthur
38th 1964: Douglas MacArthur
39th 1969: Sir Richard Milhous Nixon
40th 1974: Hubert Horatio Humphrey
41st 1979: Martin Luther King Jr.
42nd 1984: Martin Luther King Jr.
43rd 1989: Martin Luther King Jr. (created Earl of Birmingham)
44th 1994: Sir Robert Dole
45th 1999: William Wellesley Clinton
46th* 2004: William Wellesley Clinton
47th 2009: Piyush "Bobby" Jindal
 

Sachyriel

Banned
OOC: Should we try and apply politics to some of the later? You know, because they're probably from a political background so they can be recognizable, are they affiliated with any party?

Nice work BTW.
 
OOC: Depending on which party was better on race as I'm unfamiliar with British or Canadian politics (the Whigs or Tories or Liberals or whatever), King can be of the party that was good on race.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
OOC: Depending on which party was better on race as I'm unfamiliar with British or Canadian politics (the Whigs or Tories or Liberals or whatever), King can be of the party that was good on race.

King might have his own flash-in-the-pan party but was chosen because of his ability to hold the BNA together?
 

Ian the Admin

Administrator
Donor
This is like saying "I want to play soccer, but not being to touch the ball with your hands is boring."

If you want to do real AH, you respect the basic rules of the genre. Otherwise, you do ASB stuff.

That's a bit insulting considering that a large portion of the board disagrees with you on "the basic rules of the genre".
 
OOC: Just because someone with the last name 'King' is named after Martin Luther (a man born well before the PoD) doesn't mean he's the exact same person as OTL MLK.
 
That's a bit insulting considering that a large portion of the board disagrees with you on "the basic rules of the genre".

(OOC)

Aye. One can argue due to the relative independence of running local affairs, relative openness to immigrants since the beginning (not just something that started in the 19th century), AND being across the Atlantic in the first place means that even in a world where the ARW was lost/avoided, doesn't change that America can still be taking in immigrants to populate the continent, as well that the Anglo-Americans will still be moving west in any event. Many details will change, but the broad swaths (America moving westward, America continuing to have Britain being the biggest trade partner in OTL as well as TTL, America continuing to be a cultural/social colony of Britain also in both worlds) will stay the same.

Even then, it'll likely get independence dominion-wise anyways earlier than OTL dominions do to a much bigger population, so no need to worry on it affecting the world wars too much; it'll be too preoccupied with developing and winning its OWN lands to do much to help Britain become a Britwank by the time it'd be more interested in imperialism for imperialism's sake (and why would it, since being friendly with Britain from the get-go means it has access to the empire as well for trade), which will help foster a parallel of isolationism ala OTL. There might still be a southern rebellion as well in some form, since the Civil War was as much on economics and regional culture as well as slavery.

Which leads to my original point, again: that with the immigration being more or less OTL and America running its own affairs ALREADY and CONTINUING to do so, many of the same people will be around in some shape or form, even to this day. It's more the political setting being different with a Westminster-style government and monarch, rather than the people themselves or broad amounts of culture.

Quite a sloppy post in form, but my points stand, I like to think.
 
OOC: Just because someone with the last name 'King' is named after Martin Luther (a man born well before the PoD) doesn't mean he's the exact same person as OTL MLK.
OOC: IIRC one of Harry Turtledove's sneaky twists was to have his MLK analog be named John Calvin King. Very different emphasis.
 
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