DBWI: Balkanized America

June, 24, 1880
Empire of Iowa

It has been nearly forty years since the end of the Second American Revolutionary War which started because of the constitutional crisis and the Democratic Party staging a coup, after five long years of civil war the opposition finally restored order. This was the first phase of the War and during that phase Nationalism grew between the states, the opposition believed in a weak government and with a fragile economy the Union eventually dissolved and many new nations were born.
 
(OOC: This has been attempted, however poorly, here.)

IC: Um, and?.. I mean, we all know the history (at least in general, I for one don't know the details of the second revol. war, but it's my personal problem), so what do you wish to discuss here? How and why that happened - you seem to have answered this yourself. How this could have been prevented - sorry, I am no expert in American history, but maybe the central government of the USA could have loosened on internal migration laws a little, thus creating a more uniform "American nation" profile, rather than a collection of German/English/whichever descendants in each state that did not feel ties with the Union as a whole?
 
I am actually wondering if anyone has done a timeline on a world where the Articles of Confederation were kept and the United States gradually fell apart before 1800. If no, I am going to attempt to do one, if yes, then I want to try and improve upon it (and obviously put my own slant onto it as well)

Could anyone help me with this, give me links and the like?
 
Here is an idea, no Shay's Rebellion, you don't get a constitutional convention without it. The rebellion scared the leadership greatly, and showed them that the AoC was not working. Some of the leaders tried to have a convention to change the AoC earlier before the Rebellion, and no one showed up. The country was already spliting up to some degree. New Hampshire, Ethan Allen had declared independence, and every state had its own currency rates. Another idea would to keep Madison away from the convention, without the Virginia plan, the AoC is still in charged with a council running the nation. Also, another Idea, is to not have the AoC gov. pass the Northwest Ordinance , which would give the states another breaking point. Still with AoC, it is very likely the country would split.
 
My thoughts were to have the Constuitional Convention fail somehow. As I am australian and dont know everything I want to know about the early years of the United States and the formation of the constitution I was unaware about Shay's rebellion. Obviously I want to do a little more research on the topic.

I am actually looking for ideas, so as to not threadjack any more than what I may of already done, I ask you to post these ideas to https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1806002#post1806002 and to keep this thread to a 1840s breakdown of the USA like it was originally intended to do.
 
like, I said then, just keep Madison away, if you don't have Madison, you don't have the Virginia plan, and you don't have the constitution as you have it. The only other ways, are having the delegates get caught up on the make up of the congress or the slave issue, but these two are weak pod's. The next best place is have the ratification of the constitution fail. The easiest way to do this is prevent the federalist papers.
 
How is this a DBWI? I guess I don't get it.

So, America is Balkanized...and we are wondering if it were Balkanized? I guess this is one of those RP threads.

My attempt to explain the consequences: It's a good thing the UK has decided to take us back, I they've got a real point with the whole "Not ready to rule ourselves" bit.

The whole point of democratic ideas has been discredited as well--you let people vote and look what happens! It's clear that the idea of one man, one vote is a terrible idea. The best people should count more, and be worth more--and that's how it has been since ancient Rome.

People like Washington and Jefferson were just as starstruck as Robespierre . And like that darn fool Karl Marx, had to go and create some new idea that would not work. It's clearly Thomas Hobbes and the idea of one big government is a hell of a lot better than the "State of Nature" that florished in the "United" States of America.

I wonder what some of those people were thinking with their insane ideas. If someone steals, rapes or kills, they might deserve God's Mercy but not that of real men. Have yourselves a hanging, or maybe ship the pukes to some penal colony in Michigan if your squeamish. Heck, hanging a felon is grounds for a party here, one more creature that vaguely resembles a man getting sent of to his maker.

As a member of the Gentry, we knew after the nightmare that happened in France that something similar would happen in America.
We can only thank God above that the United Kingdom established the dominions of New England, Atlantica, Virginia, Carolina, Appalachia, and Cabotland over half the territory that used to be the former disunited states. Now we have justice instead of outlandish ideals, and if someone steals from us we hang the puke. God Willing, Queen Victoria's Reign should see the incorporation of the rest of these Barbarian Warlords into the British Empire. Hail Britannia!!
 
How is this a DBWI? I guess I don't get it.

So, America is Balkanized...and we are wondering if it were Balkanized? I guess this is one of those RP threads.

My attempt to explain the consequences: It's a good thing the UK has decided to take us back, I they've got a real point with the whole "Not ready to rule ourselves" bit.

The whole point of democratic ideas has been discredited as well--you let people vote and look what happens! It's clear that the idea of one man, one vote is a terrible idea. The best people should count more, and be worth more--and that's how it has been since ancient Rome.

People like Washington and Jefferson were just as starstruck as Robespierre . And like that darn fool Karl Marx, had to go and create some new idea that would not work. It's clearly Thomas Hobbes and the idea of one big government is a hell of a lot better than the "State of Nature" that florished in the "United" States of America.

I wonder what some of those people were thinking with their insane ideas. If someone steals, rapes or kills, they might deserve God's Mercy but not that of real men. Have yourselves a hanging, or maybe ship the pukes to some penal colony in Michigan if your squeamish. Heck, hanging a felon is grounds for a party here, one more creature that vaguely resembles a man getting sent of to his maker.

As a member of the Gentry, we knew after the nightmare that happened in France that something similar would happen in America.
We can only thank God above that the United Kingdom established the dominions of New England, Atlantica, Virginia, Carolina, Appalachia, and Cabotland over half the territory that used to be the former disunited states. Now we have justice instead of outlandish ideals, and if someone steals from us we hang the puke. God Willing, Queen Victoria's Reign should see the incorporation of the rest of these Barbarian Warlords into the British Empire. Hail Britannia!!

It's not a DBWI, from what I can tell.

The problem with that, is that you have a large change of the personalities of the Revolutionary leaders. The difference between the French Revolution or the Russian Revolution vs the American Revolution can be seen in two ways. One way is, that unlike those other two, those who were in power before the revolution were in charge after the revolution. The people who rain the state legislature stayed the same. In the other two, the groups who come to power had no power before hand. Also the character of the revolutionary American leaders was a bit different, with the exception of America's Cataline, Burr. Ellis does a good job of showing this in his book. Though one could argue, that either Shay's rebellion or the Whiskey Rebellion could of started to lead that way, though the Whiskey rebellion would of just as likely resulted in a growth of Spanish power in NA.
 
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