DBWI: Anyone know any good "Union Survived" books?

Just curious if there are any good ones. I can't find any down here in the CSA. I've checked 12 stores. :(
 

Germaniac

Donor
Turtledove's Timeline-191, Unions soldiers finding the Special Order 181 during the ACW, was decent WAY to much of an America Wank though, The United States invaded the Middle East in the latest book LOL I mean come on that is ridiculous.
 

LittleSpeer

Monthly Donor
"Defeat of the Imperialists" was just an ok but lacked imagination by the author. It's about The Great War and how if the Union won the Civil War 45 years prior, they would have joined the French and the English in 1917 anyway. Why would they join the very country's that supported the CSA during the war of Northern Aggression.
 
"Empire Forever!"

I misremember the author, but "The Empire Forever" trilogy is a serious Brit-wank for 2.9 books.. According to the author, having the US united would mean that it was content with its holdings in North America, or would be within a decade. It was only mentioned in passing; the USA was not the main part of the tale, but he is right about the USA having no real need to expand any further. Throughout the 20th century, everyone's policy was "don't piss off the USA," not because it could whip anyone, but because it was so big and industrialized that if it did jump into a war, the war would be rapidly decided. And when Venezuela went too far in the early 20th century, it finally got snapped up by the USA, and made a permanent protectorate--this lesson was not lost on the rest of the Americas.

This was settingthe scene for "Empire Forever," and sequels, a constant tale of war and peace through Europe and Asia, with the USA conviently out of the way--though he did use it to good effect in half-neutralizing Britian's command of the sea; when the Royal Navy interdicted war materials to neutrals, their President Bryant insisted that American rights would be backed up by American battleships--so endless American war materials flowed to neutrals--who promptly sold them across the border to France.

The finalle is rather unique, as the British Empire along with the Prussian Empire becomes dominant in Europe, crusing France and driving Russia out of Poland, and keeps its colonies. Yet, at the same time, the USA, with vast hordes of European gold gained by selling so much war materials, is by far the richest nation on Earth--motorcars in the hands of even the poor, aeroplanes carring ordinary people on vacation, atomic power plants, and even computing machines for sale in department stores.

The last scene, of Americans in their space station, looking down on the planet-boud Europeans' "petty squabbles" makes a decent A/H war story into something else, asking the readers to question the value of war as opposed to the value of staying out, and building an economy. As one character said, "The USA decided to get the tecnological benefiots of war, yet omit the war."

(I must say, at least it makes sence that a nation that, through a half-century and more, makes a lot of money selling anything to anyone, would have incentive to improve its technology, so as to keep its products valuable, and defend its shores. And the constant bombing in Europe would slow down any reserch there.)
 
Derrick K. Godwin's "Dream Team: The Political Brilliance of Abraham Lincoln" is an insightful and thorough work of alternate history centered on how events might have unfolded if Abraham Lincoln had been able to bring men such as Solomon Chase, William Seward and Edward Bates together in a "unity cabinet" during his 1861-65 presidential term. Godwin plausably and creatively lays out how Lincoln was able to marshall these individuals' talents for the purpose of preserving the Union. There are only a few implausable "ya right" happenings (which I won't detail, lest I spoil the final sequence of battles). Those aside, Godwin does an exceptional job of detailing how Lincoln overcomes incompetent generals, hostile Members of Congress, a raucous cabinet and an inability to win the respect of his advisors, that "government of the governed, by the governed and for the governed shall not parish, but flourish once again upon the earth."
 
hmm... I remember reading a short story (in some collection of AH that I don't remember the title of). In this one, the CSA still won the war, but offended the rest of the world by keeping slavery going, and thus, England and France abandoned their military commitments to it. Later on, England and France became locked into a decades-long war with Germany and Austria and (get this) Russia! The US seized this moment to attack the CSA and conquer it. IIRC, the POV was mostly that of the President Roosevelt of the US (I think he was some descendant of Theodore). Sure, it's unlikely (especially the 30+ year war in Europe... who could afford to fight that long?)....
 
A suggested reading list...

IF THE NORTH HAD WON THE WAR OF SECESSION, by MacKinlay Kantor: General Lee loses at Gettysburg on July 3, 1863 (I know you've probably never heard of it...it's a little town in Pennsylvania that never figured in our real War of Independence) and General Ulysses S. Grant (who, unlike OTL, survived the Battle of Shiloh) takes Vicksburg on July 4, 1863, setting in motion a chain of events which leads to the defeat of the Confederacy in April 1865.

BRING THE JUBILEE, by Ward Moore: The Emancipation Proclamation spurs a massive slave revolt in mid-1863. The Confederacy quickly collapses.

UNION VICTORIOUS, edited by Peter Tsouras: A collection of somewhat improbable essays by historians on scenarios in which the Union might have won the war. Some of them are quite interesting.

THE GUNS OF THE NORTH, by Harry Turtledove: Radical leftists from the future travel through time and supply the Union armies with M-16 rifles (a modern assault rifle, similar to our own Tredegar Model 75 5.56 mm rifle) just prior to the Battle of Chancellorsville (what was, in OTL, the decisive battle of the war).

The STARS AND STRIPES series by Harry Harrison: Britain and the United States join forces against the Confederacy after a Confederate commerce raider mistakenly seizes a British ship on the high seas. Wildly implausible, and very haphazardly researched, but an enjoyable read nevertheless.

If you can't find these in your local stores, try online. I hear that Amazonian.com has them.
 
How about the film "Gods and Generals"? In it, General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson is killed the night after Chencellorsville, thus preventing his role in Lee's victory Pipe Creek, PA in 1863 and in crushing Grant's attempt to bring his army through the Wilderness in 1864. Lincoln's hopes for re-election died with the Union defeat in that battle in my opinion.
 
How about the film "Gods and Generals"? In it, General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson is killed the night after Chencellorsville, thus preventing his role in Lee's victory Pipe Creek, PA in 1863 and in crushing Grant's attempt to bring his army through the Wilderness in 1864. Lincoln's hopes for re-election died with the Union defeat in that battle in my opinion.

OOC: It's already been established in the above posts that Chancellorsville was the decisive battle of the war and that Grant was killed at Shiloh. How can the 1864 campaigns have still happened?

IC: Yes, if Jackson had died at Chancellorsville, things could have turned out a bit differently. As you say, the victory at Pipe Creek would not have happened. But that would not have affected things much.

Of course, Pipe Creek wasn't much of a victory. The Army of the Potomac had already been destroyed at Chancellorsville, and that event finally brought the Anglo/French intervention which ended the war. Lee moved north and mopped up some Pennsylvania and New York militia which had been hastily assembled at Pipe Creek. This just put the icing on the cake, so to speak. The British and French recognized the Confederacy a week later.

As for Grant, we all know he was killed at Shiloh. I know, in some of his correspondance, he spoke of a dream he had of marching through the Virginia Wilderness and taking Richmond, but the Confederate cannonball which decapitated him rendered all that a moot point. However, if he had been able to lead such an invasion in 1864, the Union might well have won. Someone should write a timeline about that.

And of course, given that Lincoln presided over a losing war, it is no wonder he lost the election of 1864, and has gone down in history as a total failure.
 
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