DBWI:Anniversary of the Japanese victory

Today's the day that the US officially surrendered to the Japanese. Think that dealt the final blow to its pride as a nation. What annoys me are all these TLs trying to postulate how the US could have won--it's impossible. The idea that the US could have triumphed over Japan is pure fantasy. They wouldn't be able to transport the soldiers across the Pacific, let alone defeat the Imperial navy. What do you guys think?
 
It is ridiculous.
I read this AH novel once that claimed if MacArthur wasn't captured in the Phillipines, and Nimitz wan't killed at Midway, they could have won.
and they were Bogged down in Europe, like they could spare the manpower to face us.....
 
I really think it's shameful of the Japanese to call it a "surrender". The ceasefire and Treaty of Tokyo did involve giving the Japs some of what they asked for, but it's not like the US was ever actually attacked on the mainland. Sure, a few Aluetians changed hands, and they got the Philipines and the DEI, but in return the US was able to devote all of its enormous economic capacity to the European front.

Personally, I think that the split of attention was doomed from the start--no nation has or ever will fight a two-front war succesfully. On the other hand, if the Americans were tied up in the Pacific, might Operation Return and the retaking of France have been put off longer, maybe into '44? In that case, maybe the Iron Curtain falls farther west due to more Soviet precence in Germany? IOTL, they got a segment of Berlin, but they didn't get much of Germany--about half whatr any of the other allies got.

And without the Ameri-Japanese-led Pacific Ocean Treaty Organization (whose foundation in 1946 was probably only poosible due to the peaceful settlement in the Pacific) might China fall to Mao instead of being wiped clean of the Communist scurge?
 
Fighting the Nazis was one thing. The Yanks had the will to keep fighting until the bitter end there. It was a just war, and the Yanks got involved when the Nazis stupidly torpedoed the USS Texas right off of New York City...

Unlike the Pacific War, which the US stupidly started. "MacArthur's War" they called it. That idiot got caught running guns to the Chinese, and the Japs had every right to seize those ships. And MacArthur was stupid enough to try blowing them up, and ended up sinking half a dozen Japanese warships. Nobody wanted to die bailing that idiot out. He got what was coming to him, too. His blunder cost the US dearly. Independence for the Philippines. Philippines permanently allied to Japan. Japan gains all of the other US possessions in the region. Japan gains the Hawaiian islands as a protectorate. The US can't keep any battleships or aircraft carriers in the Pacific ocean without prior consent of the Japanese. Total size of the US Navy limited to one and one half that of Japan, with all heavy units in the Atlantic. Panama Canal transfered to Panamanian control. All US trade with China must be sanctioned by Japan.

The US had the resources to easily win both wars at the same time. The nation was/is just that powerful. But in the Pacific, they didn't have the will to fight, even where they massively outnumbered the Japanese. In the end, it was easier for the Yanks to just swallow their pride and accept the humiliaton. All of their wrath, all of their might, was then focused upon the Nazis. The end of the Second Great War in June of 1944, and the fifty year Allied occupation of Germany shows just what happens when the yanks have the will to fight. The Pacific War serves to remind everyone just how soft they are if that will is... lacking.
 
Independence for the Philippines. Philippines permanently allied to Japan. Japan gains all of the other US possessions in the region. Japan gains the Hawaiian islands as a protectorate. The US can't keep any battleships or aircraft carriers in the Pacific ocean without prior consent of the Japanese. Total size of the US Navy limited to one and one half that of Japan, with all heavy units in the Atlantic. Panama Canal transfered to Panamanian control. All US trade with China must be sanctioned by Japan.

Those who do not read their history books right are doomed to failure. Clearly you got the ceasefire and Tokyo Treaty terms mixed up with one of the Japanowanks floating around in the ASB section. And while MacArthur's plan to smuggle guns to China was stupid as all get out, it's not like the Japanese weren't itching for a war...they'd been planning their (never used) Pearl Harbor suprise strike for years.

Besides, who uses three battleships and a cruiser force to interdict eight transports? No wonder Mac wasn't thinking straight at the end--that was practically a DoW there by itself, especielly since they shot first. ("Warning shots", my rear end. Warning shots don't sink ships, and rarely include a full broadside.)

OOC: Not to be mean or anything, but I noted in my post that the only thing to change hands were the Dutch East Indies, a few Aleutian islands, and the Philipines. And the other terms about naval stuff...Jesus. That's the kind of stuff you can lay down when you have your knife at their throat, not in a simple ceasefire to end a war you've barely fought! I specifically said that the Japanese never touched the mainland.
 
Those who do not read their history books right are doomed to failure. Clearly you got the ceasefire and Tokyo Treaty terms mixed up with one of the Japanowanks floating around in the ASB section. And while MacArthur's plan to smuggle guns to China was stupid as all get out, it's not like the Japanese weren't itching for a war...they'd been planning their (never used) Pearl Harbor suprise strike for years.

Besides, who uses three battleships and a cruiser force to interdict eight transports? No wonder Mac wasn't thinking straight at the end--that was practically a DoW there by itself, especielly since they shot first. ("Warning shots", my rear end. Warning shots don't sink ships, and rarely include a full broadside.)

OOC: Not to be mean or anything, but I noted in my post that the only thing to change hands were the Dutch East Indies, a few Aleutian islands, and the Philipines. And the other terms about naval stuff...Jesus. That's the kind of stuff you can lay down when you have your knife at their throat, not in a simple ceasefire to end a war you've barely fought! I specifically said that the Japanese never touched the mainland.

OOC: You managed to sneak your post in while I was in the middle of writing mine...

I made the war out to a Vietnam analogue, only with the US in the middle of fighting the Nazis too. Japan seems to have been smart enough here not to ally with Germany. One can look and say that the first treaty obviously got renegotiated following the Trinity (nuclear) test, with the US getting back much of what it (temporarily) lost. Japan just got to be grateful that in their 'demonstration' the US nuked useless desert, not Japanese cities.

IC: Those were the original terms, never enforced. The US dragged out the negotiations and delayed ratifying the treaty until august of 1945, when they demonstrated their first nuclear weapon, and revealed a bomber (B-37 Peacemaker) that could carry one all the way across the Pacific, and that could not be successfully intercepted by the Japanese. A revised treaty was signed and ratified three weeks later, on the first of September. The US still had to give up control of the Panama Canal, and Japan had to respect the independence of the Philippines rather than simply making them into a puppet state.
 
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