Or they need to knock out Allied artillery quicker, so it doesn't slaughter so many trying to cross the river.
DBWI AHC: France Surrenders in the Great European War
- Thread starter Johnrankins
- Start date
Or they need to knock out Allied artillery quicker, so it doesn't slaughter so many trying to cross the river.
Some kind of PoD where they don't cannibalize the Reichswehr so badly; maybe leave a few Regular regiments as infantry support for the Panzers while breaking up the rest of the Reichswehr as cadre.
You don't really need more idiots in Belgium, though - their defenses were unfinished and pathetic IOTL, and it was only the French having realized this and being ready to immediately counterattack and push the Germans back that allowed the Belgians to hold. The Maginot Line did its job fantastically and funneled the German attack through Belgium; had the French trusted in the Belgians to hold on their own, then Belgium is overrun, the majority of the French army is flanked, and the Germans could punch through to Paris before the French could reinforce it.
Take Paris, and between that plus the territory occupied between Belgium and France, and you've dealt a huge blow to the French war industry. With a little (German) luck, you could even see the French army pinned down to their own defensive line and the interior left wide open; that could very well topple the French government, and if the Germans can keep the momentum, then France could fall. A good chunk of her army would escape into Africa, but she falls.
Is it likely? No - the Germans were facing a France that was her equal, allied with another major power in Britain, and while the Dutch and the Belgians weren't big powers, you can't ignore them. In that situation you need luck, and plenty of it, but not so much that it can't happen - it's happened often enough in history.
There is the core of it. Lacking a heavy artillery echelon, and being short ammunition compared to the French the Germans went for a doctrine of out tempoing the Allied armies. While they did do that vs Poland, and in taking Norway, and in the opening weeks in the west, they were not able to sustain the tempo long enough to get out from under Allied fire power. Maybe if they had better developed their air force as a tactical strike force to substitute for the missing artillery? They did try but did not bring the techniques to the necessary level. Nothing close to the level the Americans used against the Japanese in the Pacific war. German morale really suffered when casualties hit 120,000 dead in the ninth week of the campaign. Nothing compared to Verdun, but then the German army of 1940 was a much more brittle sword.
Konrad Sartorius
Banned
I think that a German Victory in 1940 European War is just as ASB as a Confederate Victory in the Civil War.
Have Spain and Italy invade France while they're tied up in Belgium. If Molotov could convince the Soviets to stay neutral, then he can convince Italy and Spain to jump onto the "walking corpse," as Model put it. Though that wouldn't be necessary had Hitler listened to the generals who told him to create Panzer divisions. That extra striking power in the thrust though Belgium could have allowed the Germans to reach the Meuse before the French had set up.
Not to mention being stabbed in the back by Stalin three weeks later.
They had Panzer divisions , I doubt two more would have mattered. Of course if they could have sped up the production of Panzer IIIs it might have helped, they were the only Panzers worth a damn.
Of course you'd need to get rid of the political generals in the Nazi military and somehow delay French innovation/reform (maybe have Hitler be less aggressive?), but those extra Panzer divisions would still be necessary.
Konrad Sartorius
Banned
Hitler is unlikely to show such restraint. The man was a raving ideologue committed to "Lebenstram" and a whole plethera of half-baked theories of German glory.
Yet, he restrained himself enough to not attack the Soviets but make a deal with them. My guess is he would have done so sooner or later but it is a fact that Stalin back-stabbed him not the other way around.
Konrad Sartorius
Banned
You know there is a wonderful Churchill quote.
"If the devil were to declare war on Hitler's Germany then I would give him a glowing review in the Parliament.
No, Germany was closer in industrial production than even UK/France than the CSA was to the USA.
Planet of Hats
Donor
Where would a successful Germany even go after knocking out France? They'd still have to deal with England, and it's not like they're going to successfully cross the Channel. I mean, who here really thinks an amphibious invasion of England could work?
The USSR, obviously. It's big, it's there, and he wants his living space.
Also what he claimed he wanted in Mein Kampf which was basically a rant against Jews and the need for Germany to enslave or remove the Slavs and take their land. What a loony!
Plus, unlike the CSA, the Germans had better parity in numbers. What fucked them was their armor and air power. The former had some good advantages, but the fact is sending training tanks and early run semi-prototypes against a more proven design does not work well. Their tactics were good, but the French were not stupid and they adapted quickly, something planners didn't factor in readily. The repeated hiccups of their engines didn't help. Airpower wise, they picked poorly too; especially for bomber frames.
They tried that to a degree; the shittastic Junkers Ju87, nicknamed the Stuka, also nicknamed the Sarg, or Coffin. It allowed for great and accurate bombing due to its dive profile, but it could knock you out with G-forces if you go in too fast, the climb was terrible (meaning if you dived too low... blam), and it was slow and easily shot down. Good against the Polish, who were just starting to modernize their air force, a terrible joke against the Belgians and especially the French. An Me109 variant would do well at the job to some degree I'd reckon; their 20mm cannons were pretty nasty, but the Germans needed a better bomber frame and design for sure.
And focusing Krupp to produce those Marders was not a wise decision, I will agree they needed more basic Arty. Simple is better, which is why Stalin managed to basically roll right in with what he had. I guess it isn't smart to write a book about how you want to destroy the Soviets as policy when the leader at the time was a paranoid and ruthless man, eh?
Adolf Hitler may be a lot of things but smart was not one of them. Have you read his book? It reads like the ramblings of an insane 10 year old.
I think one problem for the Germans was they remembered 1919 all too well. By 1941 it looked like 1919 again. Frankly the French learned their lessons well in the Franco-Prussian War and were determined to make sure the Germans could never besiege Paris again and it never did.