DBWI: A Napoleonic Defeat

What if Napoleon was defeated in the Wars of the Coalition and Britain wins? What would the world look like, in the immediate aftermath, through to today? Are the British forced off India by native states and sepoys? Does Germany and Italy unify? What does the intellectual environment look like? Etc.

And for that matter, how would it happen? I'm hard pressed to see how.
 
Luck maybe. I am not well read on that war, but if we assume Britain wins against France I'd expect a Bourbon to be put back on the throne, and France to be reduced to its 1780's borders. Without a Bonaparte on the throne I do not think France will be as antagonistic twoards Britain. After all, French support is the only reason the Indian states rebeled from Britain, and France was the only reason the Jackson doctrine* was enforcable till the United States became able to enforce it by itself seventy years later.

*OOC: Monroe doctrine.
 
Napoleon was a progressive person. It was actually the French innovations which won them the wars.

I mean things like steam wagons to haul cannons long distances and canned foods for the army and the navy really made the French formidable opponents on land and sea. Also the French support for equality saw them get a good chunck of Black and Mullato commanders for their American colonies.

Also the MI (Marine Imperiale) was equal in terms of firepower and ships if not tactics to the RN. So losing to Britain at sea was different from being annihilated.

Also the Frenchmen such as Captain Samru and Captain Madek supported the King of Rajputana Ranjit Singh and the Maratha Emperor Yashwant Rao Holkar and their armies beat the British Army during the Napoleonic wars.

And the Jackson doctrine was never really enforced with Borealia (OTL Canada) and Louisiana and Guiana (French, British and Dutch) were essentailly British and French colonies in all but name till the 1920s.

I imagine a scenario where Napoleon loses:

Napoleon does not like inventions too much, so not steam wagons and no canned foods.
He supports the reintroduction of Slavery. (In OTL he opposed it). So no L'Ouverture and a slave rebellion which is supported by Britain. (Napoleon had said," A man who once tastes Freedom will go to the depths of hell to remain free).
Latouche-Treville dies befor instituting the reforms of 1805, thus enabling the French to defeat the British in 1809 and land a force of 40,000 under Charles de Rohanstuart aka Charles IV of Ireland, to link up with the Irish rebel army.
He decids to go ahead in his conquest of Russia. (OTL he decided not to do the same).
Adopting Louis XVII as his heir in 1806, thus gaining an ally in the HRE and later the German Empire.

OOC: I know Louis died in 1795 but here he is alive and has been re-educated.
 
What if Napoleon was defeated in the Wars of the Coalition and Britain wins? What would the world look like, in the immediate aftermath, through to today? Are the British forced off India by native states and sepoys? Does Germany and Italy unify? What does the intellectual environment look like? Etc.

And for that matter, how would it happen? I'm hard pressed to see how.

I highly doubt it. Italy and, later, Germany were French puppet kingdoms once, and their royal families were related to the main Bonaparte family. Without a French victory, probably the pre-Revolution borders would be restored, and the restored royal families would suppress any sort of nationalism (Italian nationalism was ironically born during French rule). No unification there, in both cases. As for what Italy and Germany would look like today, I don't know. Venice's independence would be restored for sure though.
 
What if Napoleon was defeated in the Wars of the Coalition and Britain wins? What would the world look like, in the immediate aftermath, through to today? Are the British forced off India by native states and sepoys? Does Germany and Italy unify? What does the intellectual environment look like? Etc.

And for that matter, how would it happen? I'm hard pressed to see how.

I don't really know, TBH. Italy and Germany DID unify, btw, but the former only after the massacres of Genoa and Verona in 1852 and 1853 sparked a catastrophic revolution that ended in 1861, and the latter after the Congress of Vienna in 1872(only to break up after the end of WWII in 1946.).
It may be possible to either accelerate or delay both events, I think, though I lean towards the latter with Italy and slightly towards the former with Germany, due to the problems of the 1850s.

As for Britain? I recall that Robert Sobel wrote a story back in the 1970s in which India remains British all the way up until 1947 or so. IOTL, India became largely self-governing in 1905, though it does remain an integral part of the Commonwealth today(South Africa was kicked out in 1946 and Canada never joined. Only Australia, Tasmania, Jamaica, and New Guinea are still in today, along with India).

Speaking of Napoleonic government, there was a guy in Borealia who tried to instigate a Napoleonic-style revolt in 1845 or so. He failed, but the British reaction to this was so screwy that civil war broke out just a half decade later and in 1862, the remnants were dismantled and the Confederation of Canada was born. The rest, they say, is history.....(though there was a Territory of Borealia for a while, in what was northern Ontario, in honor of the old colony)...though I wonder what could have happened had he succeeded. Could Borealia have survived for another few decades?
 
The British were tied up in continual wars in Imdia against the Marathas during the period after the Napoleonic Wars throughout the 1820s and 1830s with the last Maratha kigdoms falling only in the early 1840s.. The British managed to overextend themselves in their attempted invasion of Afghanistan in 1842. The destruction of Lord Gough's army byTej Singh at Ferozeshahin 1846 lost the British a large part of Nothern India, a situation that was not reversed by the outcome of the Second Sikh War 1848 (pretty much a draw. The British were fially kicked out in the 1857 Mutiny which started in the Bengal Army but spread to the Madras and Bombay Presidencies finally lost India to the British. There was of course the shortlived attempt to re-establish the Moghul Empire but that was always doomed to failure and the subcontinent broke up into warring regions.
 
Would the USA be as powerful as it is today? Napoleon was always more than happy to support the USA, from the Louisianna Purchase to endorsing our claims in Oregon Country, usually to spite the British. If Napoleon had fallen, would the USA be what it is today? Depending on when you want him beaten, we may not even get Louisiana, let alone much of the rest!
 
Would the USA be as powerful as it is today? Napoleon was always more than happy to support the USA, from the Louisianna Purchase to endorsing our claims in Oregon Country, usually to spite the British. If Napoleon had fallen, would the USA be what it is today? Depending on when you want him beaten, we may not even get Louisiana, let alone much of the rest!

The US might have gained New Orleans in such a scenario, since they desired the port A LOT, however I doubt they would gain more then the portions of Louisiana north of the 31st parallel. The British would most likely establish a protectorate or two in the rest of Louisiana, with the north being native-controlled and the south being a settler colony in all but name.
 
Any idea how the Spanish vice-royalties would do? If, say, the US had taken Louisiana and New Orleans, it would come into conflict with New Spain potentially. I mean, OTL the Spanish-American War ended in Spain's favor quite handily, with Viceroyalty troops acquitting themselves well against American militamen (from what I've read, their experience in the Revolutionary War solidified their faith in those shoddy state militias and predisposed them against a regular army). Does the Treaty of Versailles look more or less harsh with this PoD?
 
Any idea how the Spanish vice-royalties would do? If, say, the US had taken Louisiana and New Orleans, it would come into conflict with New Spain potentially. I mean, OTL the Spanish-American War ended in Spain's favor quite handily, with Viceroyalty troops acquitting themselves well against American militamen (from what I've read, their experience in the Revolutionary War solidified their faith in those shoddy state militias and predisposed them against a regular army). Does the Treaty of Versailles look more or less harsh with this PoD?

Yeah, but just remember that we got our revenge by helping the Mexicans gain their independence just 10 years later....nothing Madrid could have done to stop that. (we took the rest of Louisiana not long after, too.) :D
 
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