DBWI: A Jewish state in Palestine?

A thought I've been tossing around in my head for quite a while now. Could a Jewish state have been established in Palestine, even in a world where the Entente won the Great War?
 

Xen

Banned
Im going to say its highly unlikely. The Ottoman Empire may have lost Palestine in the Post-war Treaty, but eventually all the Muslim states will unite and kick the Jews out, there is no way the Jews can with stand that much onslaught.

Perhaps they can have a Jewish Autonomous region along the Jordan Bank and the Tel Aviv Enclave, that might be workable
 
I think this ASB

If the Central Powers win the Great War, the Ottoman Empire continues to own the area, therefore no Jewish state.

If the Entente somehow wins the Great War (some people would say that's ASB just by itself), and somehow gains control of the area, they'd never allow a Jewish state.

Think about it, most Jewish immigration to the new state would probably come Germany itself, or pro-German states in Eastern Europe (e.g. Austro-Hungary, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland-Lithuania, Muscovy, etc.).... the Jews in Germany & Austro-Hungary were very loyal to those countries during the Great War, so the inevitable outcome of which would be a new German minor ally, perhaps an outright German satellite in the Middle East.

In short, even if one of the Entente powers captured Palestine, I simply can't see them following a plan which leds to a new German minor ally in Palestine by say the mid-1930s.
 
Im going to say its highly unlikely. The Ottoman Empire may have lost Palestine in the Post-war Treaty, but eventually all the Muslim states will unite and kick the Jews out, there is no way the Jews can with stand that much onslaught.

Actually, I think that with the Ottoman Empire's millet system, it could be possible for Jews to establish a millet and create some form of state in the Ottoman Empire, thanks to the Tanzimat. Remember the Armenian state that was established around the turn of the century? Of course, they'd have to work with local authorities - such as the effendi in Damascus, as well as the authorities in İstanbul - as well as co-operating with the local Arab population, but it's doable. May I remind everyone that there is already a local Jewish population in Palestine, who are Mizrahi?
 
Why would the Jews want to move to Palestine? It's desert and swampland surrounded by hostile Arabs.

They already number in the millions in East Africa, Somaliland, Tanzania and Rhodesia. Warm, beautiful lands where they have dramatically helped the locals.

What's the point?
 
Why would the Jews want to move to Palestine? It's desert and swampland surrounded by hostile Arabs.

They already number in the millions in East Africa, Somaliland, Tanzania and Rhodesia. Warm, beautiful lands where they have dramatically helped the locals.

What's the point?
Things weren't as rosy for the Jews at the beginning of the 20th century as they are now: they were pretty much hated outcasts everywhere. There actually was a movement called "Zionism" around that time which wanted to establish a Jewish "home nation" called Zion, but the movement ended up dying a slow lingering death from the '40s to the '60s as things got better for Jewish people in their own countries, making the movement irrelevant.

There was actually a Zionist element to the way hundreds of thousands of Jews emigrated to then-colonial Africa. A Jewish state would be taking it to another level. But yeah, I don't think Palestine would work as a site for Zion, despite the religious connection and the presence of Tel Aviv. If anything it'd probably have to be an African area.
 
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Zionism was that guy Herzl's idea, right? I can understand the religious element, but in these modern times, with Africa having been so good to them, what is the point? The Jews practically rule East Africa, to the point you probably could call it Zion and actually have it not be laughed at.
 
Zionism was that guy Herzl's idea, right? I can understand the religious element, but in these modern times, with Africa having been so good to them, what is the point? The Jews practically rule East Africa, to the point you probably could call it Zion and actually have it not be laughed at.
Yeah, that's my point. Right now, Jewish people in Africa have it brilliant. Around the time of the Great War, they didn't. No Jews did. Although a nation like Zion is unthinkable now, it wasn't then.
 
Good Grief!!! Why are we listening to a few rabid terrorists and their demands? Ever since Meyer Kahane, leader of the Kach guerillas, was hanged by British and Ottoman authorities in 1990, people have been talking about the state of Zion as if it would work politically. With Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane and of Rabbi Avraham Toledano bombing civilians in Istanbul (2001) and Damascus (2004), I am surprised that the Muslim world isn't planning to attack Europe or the United States in some form of retaliation....
 

Hendryk

Banned
There is one fundamental reason why Israel couldn't be located in Palestine: Rabbinic Judaism is quite adamant that Jews will only get the Holy Land back when the Messiah arrives and not before. In other words, setting up Israel in Palestine would be seen by all practicing Jews in the world as a crass usurpation of Divine privilege.

Of course, this may not have mattered for the early Zionists, who for the most part were agnostic Socialists. But even they were aware that there wouldn't have been a point to creating a state of Israel only for it to be spurned by a majority of Jews.
 
Good Grief!!! Why are we listening to a few rabid terrorists and their demands? Ever since Meyer Kahane, leader of the Kach guerillas, was hanged by British and Ottoman authorities in 1990, people have been talking about the state of Zion as if it would work politically. With Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane and of Rabbi Avraham Toledano bombing civilians in Istanbul (2001) and Damascus (2004), I am surprised that the Muslim world isn't planning to attack Europe or the United States in some form of retaliation....
Dude, we're not talking about some weirdo fringe terrorist Neo-Zionists. We're talking about the possibility of Zion being established some time after the Great War. This is an alternate history forum, in case you forgot. :rolleyes:
 
Hated fringe? What the heck are you talking about?:confused:

The Jews of Eastern Europe gave their loyalty without hesitation or qualification to the Kaiser and the Hapsburg Emperor and the powers that be in Berlin and Vienna have appreciated them ever since. Not only do the Jews of Germany and the Triple Monarchy(since the 1924 reforms) enjoy the highest standard of living in the world(admittedly all Germans and 'Triple's do) but those living in Ukrainia, the Kingdom of Poland and other associated nations are also doing wonderfully.

After all, although some Jews fled to Africa after the Ottoman Empire broke up we all know the truth, that the bulk of the population and most of the effort came from Jews fleeing France and the formerly United Kingdom.
 
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