DBWI: 1991 Soviet Coup Fails

I've been doing some reading on the 1991 Generals Coup in the Soviet Union against Gorbachev, and been thinking.

So what would have happened had the coup failed? Yeltsin would still be alive, of course, but could the Generals avoid the collapse of the Soviet Union if they did? Remember, Gorbachev was on his way to reforming the USSR when the coup happened.

OOC: Basically, 1991 Coup attempt in the USSR succeeds, Gorbachev removed from power, Boris Yeltsin is killed, but the USSR still collapses. Go.
 
I think Gorbachev was starting a process that would have led to a democratic Soviet Union. I think the Baltic states might have left but thier departure would have been peaceful unlike the OTL break up of the USSR.
 
Yeah the Second Russian Civil War (1994-present) is pretty bloody I must say. Some of my Cadet officers have done a few tours in the Ukraine, some fucked up shit going on there...
 
Yeah the Second Russian Civil War (1994-present) is pretty bloody I must say. Some of my Cadet officers have done a few tours in the Ukraine, some fucked up shit going on there...
OOC: I just want to establish that his is with the USSR's sattelite states right? Not Russia, they might be a big player backing each side but Russia balkanizing is a bit....unlikely.
 
OOC: I just want to establish that his is with the USSR's sattelite states right? Not Russia, they might be a big player backing each side but Russia balkanizing is a bit....unlikely.
OOC: Civil war does not mean balkanization you know? Many nation had civil war but did not balkanize in the end.
 

Cook

Banned
The only mistake made by the Generals was waiting too long. Gorbachev’s so called reforms, ‘Glasnost’ and ‘Peristroika’ were nothing but the destruction of party authority and discipline – they destroyed the Soviet Union.

So the economy was going through a rough patch, that’s no reason to destroy the hard work of sixty years of Socialism; the Capitalists economies were struggling at the same time and they didn’t throw their hands up and surrender did they? Instead the likes of Thatcher smashed the trouble makers, just as the party would have if they hadn’t been betrayed by the Neo-Trotskyite Gorbachev. If the generals had removed Gorbachev when he first showed his Trotsky-fascist ways, before the collapse of party discipline, the Soviet Union would have been saved and now, with the Capitalist economies suffering the inevitable collapse that Marxism always predicted they would, the Soviet Union would the Beacon on the Hill, showing the way to Socialist Prosperity to the wage slaves of Europe and America.

This thread, with its mourning of the Trotsky-fascist Gorbachev, and his drunken toady Yeltsin, reeks of the same petty bourgeoisies sentimentality that undermined the Worker’s Paradise in the first place.

You all disgust me and I shall not contribute further!
:mad:
 
The only mistake made by the Generals was waiting too long. Gorbachev’s so called reforms, ‘Glasnost’ and ‘Peristroika’ were nothing but the destruction of party authority and discipline – they destroyed the Soviet Union.

I thought it had more to do with an ossified system that was fifty years out of date and a semi-botched coup that shattered the entire government that did it in.

I think the USSR would've still separated like McNutt said, but it would've been on far more equitable terms.

I wonder if the whole Warsaw Pact fiasco still happens though. I mean Germany got off lucky, but the others... well I think everyone knows what happened to them.:(
 
It's really a shame that they executed Yeltsin. He really acted heroically, standing to the tanks, he looked like a very decent man, someone who could lead his people to freedom. He could have become a sober and inspiring leader to the exilees.

I can't help but imagining what would be like Russia with Yeltsin, having purged the military and the secret services out of KGBs, privatizing what had to be privatized without giving handouts to the ruling class... Russia would have been in the East what Germany is in the west... the two nuclei of the EU.
 
The only mistake made by the Generals was waiting too long. Gorbachev’s so called reforms, ‘Glasnost’ and ‘Peristroika’ were nothing but the destruction of party authority and discipline – they destroyed the Soviet Union.

So the economy was going through a rough patch, that’s no reason to destroy the hard work of sixty years of Socialism; the Capitalists economies were struggling at the same time and they didn’t throw their hands up and surrender did they? Instead the likes of Thatcher smashed the trouble makers, just as the party would have if they hadn’t been betrayed by the Neo-Trotskyite Gorbachev. If the generals had removed Gorbachev when he first showed his Trotsky-fascist ways, before the collapse of party discipline, the Soviet Union would have been saved and now, with the Capitalist economies suffering the inevitable collapse that Marxism always predicted they would, the Soviet Union would the Beacon on the Hill, showing the way to Socialist Prosperity to the wage slaves of Europe and America.

This thread, with its mourning of the Trotsky-fascist Gorbachev, and his drunken toady Yeltsin, reeks of the same petty bourgeoisies sentimentality that undermined the Worker’s Paradise in the first place.

You all disgust me and I shall not contribute further!
:mad:


Syndicalist! I know what you're up to, you splitter! :mad:
 
The only mistake made by the Generals was waiting too long. Gorbachev’s so called reforms, ‘Glasnost’ and ‘Peristroika’ were nothing but the destruction of party authority and discipline – they destroyed the Soviet Union.

So the economy was going through a rough patch, that’s no reason to destroy the hard work of sixty years of Socialism; the Capitalists economies were struggling at the same time and they didn’t throw their hands up and surrender did they? Instead the likes of Thatcher smashed the trouble makers, just as the party would have if they hadn’t been betrayed by the Neo-Trotskyite Gorbachev. If the generals had removed Gorbachev when he first showed his Trotsky-fascist ways, before the collapse of party discipline, the Soviet Union would have been saved and now, with the Capitalist economies suffering the inevitable collapse that Marxism always predicted they would, the Soviet Union would the Beacon on the Hill, showing the way to Socialist Prosperity to the wage slaves of Europe and America.

This thread, with its mourning of the Trotsky-fascist Gorbachev, and his drunken toady Yeltsin, reeks of the same petty bourgeoisies sentimentality that undermined the Worker’s Paradise in the first place.

You all disgust me and I shall not contribute further!
:mad:

The USSR was reeling from its own incompetence by this point. The economy was stagnant and the SSRs were already considering revolt. Glasnost and Perestroika was the only thing that could have held the USSR together.

Thats why when the coup succeeded and the Generals killed Yeltsin and removed Gorbachev from power, the SSRs seceded and now we have 18 years of civil war and seperatism while the Russian ultranationalists desperately try to keep Ukraine, the one SSR that didn't immediately secede in the union.

I hardly doubt that the Generals stepping in in '83 would have helped the Union.

I wonder if the whole Warsaw Pact fiasco still happens though. I mean Germany got off lucky, but the others... well I think everyone knows what happened to them.:(

Germany only got off without the Red Repressions because they had the West Germans about to move in and reunify. Thinking about it, if the coup fails and Gorbachev retains power (or gives it up to Yeltsin or another reformer), perhaps the other Warsaw Pact governments would realise that its a lost cause and be peacefully move away from Communism.

After all, the Croats, Slovenes and Bosnians managed to separate from Yugoslavia without bloodshed after the USSR collapsed, perhaps the Slovaks could leave Czechoslovakia without the Czechs trying to pacify the country by force.

What happened in Russia with the Russian Ultranationalists and the subsequent civil wars and the Ukrainian Liberation Front could definitely be avoided however if the Ultras don't' take power, but perhaps the Czechoslovak wars were inevitable. Thoughts?
 
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