DBWI: ¿United States?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by EdMarCarSe, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. EdMarCarSe Well-Known Member

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    After the separation of the thirteen colonies with the United Kingdom and the rest of the British Empire all the colonies followed their own path as independent states. But recently after seeing a meeting of "Pan-Americanists" (just out of curiosity) I saw them talking about an idea, the "United States of America" and how the world would have been if the thirteen colonies had united as one country, my question is What do you think would have happened in that case?
     
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  2. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    It's interesting to think if this hypothetical US could rival the Empire of Colombia, stretching from pole to frozen pole. Plenty of the Thirteen are rather strong, such as New York, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. I'd be especially interested in what would happen with northern-southern relations.
     
  3. Odinson Amateur stand-up comedian

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    Well, I'm not sure they would have united, they all had a different agenda. But, if they did come together, maybe we would be seeing an American Congo as opposed to the real life Virginian Congo. As a matter of fact, with a United States, perhaps it would have been powerful enough to rival tecumseh's Confederacy.
     
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  4. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    Personally I don't see the US staying united even if it did get over its initial difficulties. There's too many cultural and economic differences between north and south, and too many countries (Colombia, Britain, hell, even the Louisiana Republic) that would benefit from a split America. As soon as the northern and southern states come to blows, whoever is fighting for division would get all the support they need.

    Sidenote: given how important Panamericanism is for the development of Guilianian Communism, I wonder what course it would have taken with a united America?
     
  5. EdMarCarSe Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE = "HIM Dogson, post: 19042066, miembro: 83690"] Nota al margen: dado lo importante que es el panamericanismo para el desarrollo del comunismo guilianiano, me pregunto qué rumbo habría tomado con una América unida? [/ QUOTE]

    The Pan-Americans with whom I speak speculate that a "Council" or "Congress" of different representatives of the communities would have been formed, with an approach aimed at the collectivization and distribution of resources among the American people. Honestly, I think it would have become a unitary republic or something like that. I do not think either that he survived much, he would suffer a civil war or a revolution sooner or later.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  6. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    I'm sorry, I don't know Spanish, I speak German and English (I'm from the German Confederation). Could you please translate that?
     
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  7. EdMarCarSe Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, problems with the translator. I'm from the Liga Federal or Liga de los Pueblos Libres, south america.
     
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  8. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    From Buenos Aires, then? Or Uruguay or Rio Grande del Sul? I guess the LPL could be an ally for this hypothetical US against the Colombians.
     
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  9. EdMarCarSe Well-Known Member

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    Uruguay, and probably yes. But I see a long-term Anglo-American and Hispanic-American alliance unviable.
     
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  10. Bytor Well-Known Member

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    Up here in the Commonwealth countries of North America we have a similar bunch of LARPers that think we would have united into a single country as well. They call themselves the Dominionist League and go so far as to have yearly mock parliaments for the imaginary Dominion of Canada. (Which makes no sense, BTW. A province called Upper Canada, one called Lower Canada inside a nation called "Canada"? Too confusing!) I mean, sure, we're all Westminster-based parliamentary democracies rather than a bunch of presidential republics like you all in the southern half of the continent, but I just cannot see us in Upper Canada ever agreeing with Athabasca on anything. There's a reason we rib them by calling them "Saudi Athabasca" — after all they were the last of us to finally legalise same sex marriage in 2014, more than 10 years after our Supreme Court ruled on Halpern v. Upper Canada. The LARPers say that having as much intra-commonwealth trade among us today as we have with you southerners shows that we would have developed a cohesive national identity, but I rather doubt it.
     
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  11. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    I can't see there being United States of Americas. Even original thirteen colonies were quiet different regarding of politics, economy and culture. Even in convention of Philadelphia there was too much of disagreement over constitution. And even if some compromise would had found and some federal state would had formed, it hardly could had expanded very much and probably break donw in few decades speciality when industrialising anti-slavery North and agrarian pro-slavery South would had been too much of disagreements.
     
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  12. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Maybe it's just because I'm a Virginian, but I think the death of General George Washington was the death knell of the United States - he'd offered to negotiate those early conflicts between Virginia and what was then Maryland at his Mount Vernon estate... arguments got heated, and though both sides denied having been the ones that fired that shot that killed him, a unified America died with him. Once you had a war between Virginia and Maryland, the Articles of Confederation just kind of went out the window.

    Things worked out here in Virginia fairly well - the Commonwealth still managed to reach the Rockies, thanks to buying Mississippi from Louisiana, not that the reach of Nouvelle Orléans ever made it much farther than Petite Roche anyway.

    Once Pennsylvania and New York stopped fighting each other, and finally merged into the American Compact, they managed to make a decent job at turning the great lakes into their own Mare Nostrum, whatever bits Virginia didn't take anyway.

    New England, like the Brits, always had their naval empire.

    I mean, there were also the Carolinas, or the Maroni up in Deseret, but they can't all be success stories.

    Kind of makes one want to think about what they might have accomplished together.
     
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  13. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Spain (and later Mexico) would’ve surely been a huge supporter of the states staying separate.

    There is a reason that Mexico was able to become one of the world’s “Great Powers), and that was being able to keep the states all in line.

    If the states were to try to unite now, Mexico would quickly stop it, since their army, population, and economy dwarf all the states combined.

    Mexico stomped Louisiana’s forces into the ground and would’ve taken it over had France not threatened to intervene, and this is what scared the states into submission IIRC.
     
  14. Landmass Wave Well-Known Member

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    Mexico has a lot of problems now. They elected some pendejo named Jorge in 2000. His dad was president earlier. Jorge tanked the economy and started an ill advised war.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  15. water123 Really bad at names

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    What do you think the fate of the Native American Powers would be? As a white dude living in the Muscogee Empire, I hear a looot about how a lot of the formerly English American governments wanted to burn across the central United States in the same way Mexico or Louisiana did, and that if it wasn't for Alexander McGillvary we'd all be speaking English now. Sure, McGillvary was not the best man. He established the current "presidency for life" system which, while it did make relations with the European powers easier, has caused a lot of issues recently. Worse, he established the Muscogee Empire as a very European-style empire, which, while it did technically abolish slavery in 1833, still tried it's best to colonize across the world. Hell, my father himself fought in the Menawa War. that's not even getting into the brutal Redstick Wars that plagued the Southeast throughout the early 1800s. However, the Muscogee Empire has firmly established itself as a force to be reckoned with, with Muscogee being a lingua franca throughout the Southeast. I think that, if this "United States" were to try to get off the ground, England, the Muscogee and the Cherokee would crush it, similar to how Elijah Clarke's breakaway Trans-Oconee Republic was squashed.
     
  16. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    Mexico has some serious economy problems but it is still one of most powerful nations. Perhaps not as powerful as empires of France, Russia and China or United Kingdom but still pretty powerful.
     
  17. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    It is still the 5th biggest nominal economy in the world ($2.058 trillion) and a huge population (112,674,000). None of the other states come close.