DBRP: South Africa severs ties with the USA!

ninebucks

Banned
Well, Hertzog did say that that's what it would come to in the event of an Obama victory.

In return, Obama looks set to honour his campaign promises to combat the South African regime, but then, that's what every US President has said since the Great Expulsions.

So is this just more posturing? Or, as Archbishop Tutu, (the most prominent anti-Apartheid campaigner in the West), does the fact that there is a Black man on his way to the White House spell the end for minority rule in South Africa?
 
Apartheid is history. It's that simple. Hertzog is a fool for severing relations because Obama is a black man. What stupidity! :eek: :mad:
 
Apartheid is history. It's that simple. Hertzog is a fool for severing relations because Obama is a black man. What stupidity! :eek: :mad:

At the risk of sounding a cynic, they've been saying that since the 60s. Sure, it's a hell-hole, and an abomination, but it's got an ungodly amount of staying power, somehow.

The nukes probably don't hurt.
 
I have to agree with the above, especially about the nuclear capability. South Africa's possession of nuclear weapons makes international pressures against its abominable institution difficult to apply, as compelling a reason as any other I can see for non-proliferation. Between Apartheid and its clear NPT violations, South Africa has been straddling the rogue-state line for a while now. With this latest diplomatic gaff, I think its only a short bus trip away from inclusion in the Axis of Evil, which I think SA always deserved membership in anyway (I mean really, they included Pakistan and not these guys?).
 
Well another point to consider is the fact that with the current economic crisis, South Africa would be crippled financially if the United States launches an embargo as proposed by George Soros. The only reason that the Dan Quayle administration didn't launch economic sanctions was because of the Mugabe's socialist regime in Zimbabwe, along with the MPLA guerillas backed by the People's Republic of China.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Hertzog is an idiot, South Africa has to reform, the whites are the smallest of the ethnic groups in the country. I don't think Apartheid has a future anymore. The US government most understand that only a colored government in South Africa can stop socialism to sweep the whole African continent.
 
Hertzog is an idiot, South Africa has to reform, the whites are the smallest of the ethnic groups in the country. I don't think Apartheid has a future anymore. The US government most understand that only a colored government in South Africa can stop socialism to sweep the whole African continent.

Whites aren't the smallest ethnic group in the country, they are the second biggest, and if you divide the Africans into their separate ethnic groups, then whites are the single biggest ethnic group, at about 20% of the population (with the Zulus at about 18%).

The white population would probably have been smaller if there hadn't been the drive to encourage Yugoslavs to emigrate to SA, after the civil war there went nuclear in the early 80s (still a mystery where the Bosnians got nukes but anyway).

They boosted the white SA population by about 2 million probably.

However, remember there is a general election scheduled for next year, and opinion polls show that white SAns are realising the need for reform. Also, the wars in Angola and Zambia are costing SA lives every day, and are being an enormous drain on the National Treasury. An opinion poll recently showed that Hertzog and the National Party would get about 40% of the seats, 45% would go to Tony Leon and the Democratic Reformists, with the rest of the vote being split between the Conservatives under Pieter Mulder and the United for Change Party, led by Philip Dexter. The possibility exists that the UCP and the Democratic Reformists could form a coalition government next year, and although the DRs aren't as radical as the UCP, they are committed to extending rights to all South Africans.

Although apartheid is an abhorrent system, white South Africans generally have the political space to campaign freely, and vote as they please.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Well another point to consider is the fact that with the current economic crisis, South Africa would be crippled financially if the United States launches an embargo as proposed by George Soros. The only reason that the Dan Quayle administration didn't launch economic sanctions was because of the Mugabe's socialist regime in Zimbabwe, along with the MPLA guerillas backed by the People's Republic of China.

Let's not start Zimbabwe-bashing, it was Mugabe's government who took in the lion's share of refugees following the Great Expulsions.
 
Hertzog is an idiot, South Africa has to reform, the whites are the smallest of the ethnic groups in the country. I don't think Apartheid has a future anymore. The US government most understand that only a colored government in South Africa can stop socialism to sweep the whole African continent.

Because of course, the problem is an ideology promoting equality, not that African governments and their radical opponents being corrupt despots regardless of their professed politics.:rolleyes:


People make far too much of SA's nuclear capabilities, IMHO. War between nuclear powers doesn't mean said war will be nuclear - case in point, the, ooh, three wars between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh since the latter tested their first device. Besides, we have the Death of Sarajevo - the destruction of a thriving world city (it had just hosted the Olympics!) by nationalist fanatics as an act of 'cleansing', documented in horrific detail by modern media techniques and some immensely brave journalists. Not even Hertzog, reactionary supremacist that he is, would dream of using what SA's spent so much developing.
 

mowque

Banned
Quite frankly, whatever SA does is not my affair. I hope Obama was just blowing smoke when he talked about 'intervening'. Africa has been a mess for a long time, and no matter what we do, it won't help matters much. I'd much rather ignore them and focus on bringing civil-war torn China back to life.
 
Let's not start Zimbabwe-bashing, it was Mugabe's government who took in the lion's share of refugees following the Great Expulsions.
Unfortunately Zimbabwe has been helping to back the regime of Laurent Kabila and his son Laurent Kabila in Zaire since 1998. With Yoweri Musevini also supplying troops via Uganda along with UNITA/MPLA troops from Angola, South Africa is the only nation that has acted to prevent the region from becoming a socialist haven. Perhaps the release of Steven Biko in Johannesburg will serve to prevent the need for economic sanctions....
 
Whites aren't the smallest ethnic group in the country, they are the second biggest, and if you divide the Africans into their separate ethnic groups, then whites are the single biggest ethnic group, at about 20% of the population (with the Zulus at about 18%).

The white population would probably have been smaller if there hadn't been the drive to encourage Yugoslavs to emigrate to SA, after the civil war there went nuclear in the early 80s (still a mystery where the Bosnians got nukes but anyway).

They boosted the white SA population by about 2 million probably.

However, remember there is a general election scheduled for next year, and opinion polls show that white SAns are realising the need for reform. Also, the wars in Angola and Zambia are costing SA lives every day, and are being an enormous drain on the National Treasury. An opinion poll recently showed that Hertzog and the National Party would get about 40% of the seats, 45% would go to Tony Leon and the Democratic Reformists, with the rest of the vote being split between the Conservatives under Pieter Mulder and the United for Change Party, led by Philip Dexter. The possibility exists that the UCP and the Democratic Reformists could form a coalition government next year, and although the DRs aren't as radical as the UCP, they are committed to extending rights to all South Africans.

Although apartheid is an abhorrent system, white South Africans generally have the political space to campaign freely, and vote as they please.

Wait, wait, wait......The National Party could lose? They haven't lost since Malan! :eek:
 
Unfortunately Zimbabwe has been helping to back the regime of Laurent Kabila and his son Laurent Kabila in Zaire since 1998. With Yoweri Musevini also supplying troops via Uganda along with UNITA/MPLA troops from Angola, South Africa is the only nation that has acted to prevent the region from becoming a socialist haven. Perhaps the release of Steven Biko in Johannesburg will serve to prevent the need for economic sanctions....

If Marius is right, then Biko and Thabo Mbeki should be ready to deal with Leon and Dexter. Those two have more brains than that racist pinhead Mulder.

And for those talking about Zimbabwe, my family is from Rhodesia, and I despise that man like nothing else.
 
The white population would probably have been smaller if there hadn't been the drive to encourage Yugoslavs to emigrate to SA, after the civil war there went nuclear in the early 80s (still a mystery where the Bosnians got nukes but anyway).
I wouldn't say that its really that much of a mystery. Israel's nuclear weapons were one of the world's worst kept secrets, and after Israel collapsed during the Ten Days War in 1980 at least three other countries (that we know of) ended up with nukes all of a sudden within a couple of years. Its pretty obvious that some fleeing Israeli elites brought nuclear weapons technology with them as a bargaining chip for asylum, that's how Bosnia got them, that's how Brazil got them, and that's how South Africa got them as well. The timing is just too good.
 
I think all chances of a peaceful resolution were lost when they shot Mandela in 94. Not only did they ruin relationships with pretty much all african nations when they raided maputo but by killing Mandela they turned pretty much every reconciliationist in the ANC. Furthermore without Mandela there are no great uniting forces, the ANC is now the Xhosa party. the Zulus are fighting the ANC as much as the whites.

i think we are looking at a cluster fuck. the voortrekkerbunders are building fortified compounds all over the country and the govt cant do anything to stop them. the country is going to peices, the africans are fighting each other, the yugoslav immigrants are getting set to fight the umpteenth balkan war in the backyards of Jo'burg and the Nationalists are even losing the afrikaner vote. the entire country is in a laager mentallity.

ps i still cant beleive that Israel fell in 10 days.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Unfortunately Zimbabwe has been helping to back the regime of Laurent Kabila and his son Laurent Kabila in Zaire since 1998. With Yoweri Musevini also supplying troops via Uganda along with UNITA/MPLA troops from Angola, South Africa is the only nation that has acted to prevent the region from becoming a socialist haven. Perhaps the release of Steven Biko in Johannesburg will serve to prevent the need for economic sanctions....

Heaven forbid that the people of Africa be able to impliment the economic system they have constantly voted for! The Cold War is over, but it seems blithely ignoring national self-determination is an old habit that dies hard with both the South Africans and the Americans.

South Africa wants to destabilise its wider region so it can steal the natural resources from under the Africans' noses. Whereas the socialists, under Zimbabwean leadership, want to redistribute their natural wealth instead of packing it off to genocidal foreigners.
 

Jomazi

Banned
Pah, messing up our economy? What good is that?

I got myself a wine yard six months after arriving from Sweden, and I ain't sharing it with a bunch of primitives who've never achieved anything by their own except that pile of stone, and even then it was engineered by others (jews).

My guns, my family and neighbors with their guns, our nukes and BC-weapons and our whole goddamn volk says NO.

By the way, I heard Liberia didn't turn out the way the "African Americans" and their white friends expected. Oh, well.... A reminder that sometimes when theory do not match reality, theory should be changed.

And Obama is a damn mutant, produced by the illuminati to destroy the western world and the white race. Everyone knows that.
 
Heaven forbid that the people of Africa be able to impliment the economic system they have constantly voted for! The Cold War is over, but it seems blithely ignoring national self-determination is an old habit that dies hard with both the South Africans and the Americans.

South Africa wants to destabilise its wider region so it can steal the natural resources from under the Africans' noses. Whereas the socialists, under Zimbabwean leadership, want to redistribute their natural wealth instead of packing it off to genocidal foreigners.
The problem with the supposed elections of Mugabe and the Kabila regimes is that they have refused international inspection in an effort to confirm the validity of the elections, but they have a strange way of making political opponents "disappear", as told by Amnesty Inernational, Human Rights Watch, and the U.N. Human Rights Commission. To make matters worse, the region has served as a refuge for terrorists, as seen by Moammar Gaddafi's Libyan forces in Zaire, or the bombings of the U.S. Embassies by Al-Qaeda in 1998 in Tanzania and Kenya.

By your logic wouldn't it reasonable for South Africa and the United States to defend themselves against these terrorist attacks, along with the state-sponsors of the terrorists?
 

ninebucks

Banned
By your logic wouldn't it reasonable for South Africa and the United States to defend themselves against these terrorist attacks, along with the state-sponsors of the terrorists?

Do terrorists (South Africans) have a right to defend themselves from counter-terrorists (African Freedom-fighters)? That's an interesting question...
 
Do terrorists (South Africans) have a right to defend themselves from counter-terrorists (African Freedom-fighters)? That's an interesting question...
So are we supposed to allow terrorists blow up our embassies simply because our American presence offends their sensibilities? As such, what do you say to the families who were killed by Al-Qaeda terrorists in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania whose sole crime was to work in the American embassy? Also it seems that the Mugabe and Kabila regimes don't seem to have a similar regard for their own countrymen when they launched the "Great Expulsions" starting in 2000....
 
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