This one is pretty obscure but interesting to me. So in 1914, Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by Serbian nationalists called the Black Hand. Austria was outraged and with support from Germany, threatened war if they couldnt investigate. Russia was mad Austria was acting in the Balkans without them and France, wanting revenge for the Franco-Prussian war, said they'd support Russia and Serbia
Otl, the lot of them mobilized their armies and it seemed that war was coming back to the European continent in scale unseen since Napoleon.
But Britain, under George V and H. H. Asquith was wary of what this could mean for Europe and offered mediation. The alliance blocks were broken up and while Austria was allowed to investigate Ferdinand's death and Serbia was heavily compensated, and Austria and Russia were each given a slap on the wrist and told to share the Balkans.
But what if Britain hadn't been able to create a good agreement? Or hadn't bothered to, thinking the two sides would destroy themselves? Who wins the then inevitable war?
 
This one is pretty obscure but interesting to me. So in 1914, Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by Serbian nationalists called the Black Hand. Austria was outraged and with support from Germany, threatened war if they couldnt investigate. Russia was mad Austria was acting in the Balkans without them and France, wanting revenge for the Franco-Prussian war, said they'd support Russia and Serbia
Otl, the lot of them mobilized their armies and it seemed that war was coming back to the European continent in scale unseen since Napoleon.
But Britain, under George V and H. H. Asquith was wary of what this could mean for Europe and offered mediation. The alliance blocks were broken up and while Austria was allowed to investigate Ferdinand's death and Serbia was heavily compensated, and Austria and Russia were each given a slap on the wrist and told to share the Balkans.
But what if Britain hadn't been able to create a good agreement? Or hadn't bothered to, thinking the two sides would destroy themselves? Who wins the then inevitable war?
You're in the club and this guy slaps your empire's Poland - What do you do?
 
how do you think a war would have gone?
Simple, Conrad claps armies left and right, just as he did in Italy a little later. He was a very high IQ, high energy individual, he was a big thinker in a way that there was no one else quite like him, especially not in Moscow. There's a reason why military academies around the globe still cite him as the model chief of staff.
 
Simple, Conrad claps armies left and right, just as he did in Italy a little later. He was a very high IQ, high energy individual, he was a big thinker in a way that there was no one else quite like him, especially not in Moscow. There's a reason why military academies around the globe still cite him as the model chief of staff.

Sure, is the perfect example to what not doing; the disastrous war against Italy, that was in practice all Conrad and his band idea, you know the short victorious war to basically broken the K.u.K of old and with him the old Hapsburg enstablishment...so at least a good thing has been obtained from that ridicolous failure.
Really, Conrad while good in theoretical warfare was, like many of his generation in any nation of Europe, totally unbothered by the pratical thing of the war, expecially against another great power...really the first austrian offensive was so ill-prepared and rushed that was obliterated, giving so the occasion to General Pollio (ironically a good friend of Conrad) to launch a counteroffensive, sure it was limited and quickly ended but it was very costly for the Austria in both manpower and morale.
The usual jewel on the crown of Conrad used by his supporter for declaring him the new Napoleon is the Asiago Plain offensive that forced the italian army to the Piave defence line...what this people always fail to see or say is that the retreat was the original italian defense plan and Pollio was succesfull in making the bulk of the troops and their equipment reach the new line of defence unschathed while the K.u.K continued to bleed for the initial attack and the two useless offensive against the Piave line
Hell the internal and international situation was so bad that Germany put his feet down and forced Wien to retreat and giving some compensation to Italy (Trentino, Albania and some border adjustment on the Isonzo were considered enough by Berlin as an attempt to keep Italy in the Triple...ehy nobody had ever said that Willy and co. had some real attachment with reality).

On the other hand, the disastrous war and the following abdication of Emperor FJ permitted some important reform necessary for the survival of the Empire and his transformation in a more federal entity
 
Sure, is the perfect example to what not doing; the disastrous war against Italy, that was in practice all Conrad and his band idea, you know the short victorious war to basically broken the K.u.K of old and with him the old Hapsburg enstablishment...so at least a good thing has been obtained from that ridicolous failure.
Really, Conrad while good in theoretical warfare was, like many of his generation in any nation of Europe, totally unbothered by the pratical thing of the war, expecially against another great power...really the first austrian offensive was so ill-prepared and rushed that was obliterated, giving so the occasion to General Pollio (ironically a good friend of Conrad) to launch a counteroffensive, sure it was limited and quickly ended but it was very costly for the Austria in both manpower and morale.
The usual jewel on the crown of Conrad used by his supporter for declaring him the new Napoleon is the Asiago Plain offensive that forced the italian army to the Piave defence line...what this people always fail to see or say is that the retreat was the original italian defense plan and Pollio was succesfull in making the bulk of the troops and their equipment reach the new line of defence unschathed while the K.u.K continued to bleed for the initial attack and the two useless offensive against the Piave line
Hell the internal and international situation was so bad that Germany put his feet down and forced Wien to retreat and giving some compensation to Italy (Trentino, Albania and some border adjustment on the Isonzo were considered enough by Berlin as an attempt to keep Italy in the Triple...ehy nobody had ever said that Willy and co. had some real attachment with reality).

On the other hand, the disastrous war and the following abdication of Emperor FJ permitted some important reform necessary for the survival of the Empire and his transformation in a more federal entity
OOC: Pollio died before the PoD stated by the OP, further I don't see Austria initiating a war with Italy while such a friendly face is still influencing things in Rome.
 
I wonder what would happen to Russia. Otl, Tsar Nicholas was socially reactionary, but grew to be an economic liberal, and in his leadership, russia grew to industrially surpass even Germany in 1944, in no small part because of Siberia having so many resources that copying the american homestead acts basically turned parts of Kamchatka into New Moscow.

If the war had gone off at a time when Nicky was young, inexperienced, and unpopular, well.... we could probably ask Louis XVI how that went. Especially considering Gernany wouldnt hesitate to decimate entire towns
 
OOC: Pollio died before the PoD stated by the OP, further I don't see Austria initiating a war with Italy while such a friendly face is still influencing things in Rome.

Conrad tried many times to start a war with Italy even with Pollio (he had an hard on for a pre-empetive strike against Italy or/and Serbia as a mean to eliminate a long term enemy and to warn anyone that want some piece of A-H) at the helm and his stroke was very probably due to the myocarditis, so there is the possibility that he can cure it
 
Conrad tried many times to start a war with Italy even with Pollio
And he constantly failed. As chief of staff he was able to make recommendations, unprofessionally loudly at times, yet none of his attempts to be a back seat driver went anywhere. With Pollio still around and (more importantly) no overt reason for war, he's probably told to shut up as he was on pretty much every matter prior to war and a surprisingly large number of matters during the war.

his stroke was very probably due to the myocarditis, so there is the possibility that he can cure it
Fair, I guess it depends how loose you want to play with the PoD.
 
And he constantly failed. As chief of staff he was able to make recommendations, unprofessionally loudly at times, yet none of his attempts to be a back seat driver went anywhere. With Pollio still around and (more importantly) no overt reason for war, he's probably told to shut up as he was on pretty much every matter prior to war and a surprisingly large number of matters during the war.

Sure, but on the other hand nobody in Italy will be stupid enough to start a war with A-H alone so as your post said that Conrad sent troops and troops in Italy it mean that finally he was succesfull in convincing the right people, probably a mix of FJ being too weak and the new Emperor too inexperienced and the enstablishment wanting a short victorious war to prop up the nation, expecially with the negotiation with Hungary in 1917 IRC.
 
Sure, but on the other hand nobody in Italy will be stupid enough to start a war with A-H alone so as your post said that Conrad sent troops and troops in Italy it mean that finally he was succesfull in convincing the right people, probably a mix of FJ being too weak and the new Emperor too inexperienced and the enstablishment wanting a short victorious war to prop up the nation, expecially with the negotiation with Hungary in 1917 IRC.
I was thinking that the replacement of Pollio (a borderline Austrophile) with Cadorna (who iOTL was in favour of declaring war on Austria) could create the tension needed for Conrad to get the same front seat driver status he'd enjoyed during the July crisis. But whatevs.
 
I was thinking that the replacement of Pollio (a borderline Austrophile) with Cadorna (who iOTL was in favour of declaring war on Austria) could create the tension needed for Conrad to get the same front seat driver status he'd enjoyed during the July crisis. But whatevs.

Unless the italian goverment is in totally disarray no Chief of Staff had that kind of power in Italy (by purpose, both the civil goverment and the king are very attached at their prerogative), Cadorna obtained only due to the war and were almost cashiered a couple of time before Caporetto
 
<rant>
Lordy, lordy, not another one of these. C'mon folks, we just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Congress of Vienna - The only shots fired in anger on the continent of Europe since 1815 have been in muggings and police actions with very few exceptions. A World War in the 20th century would have been a bloody affair without peer, and that's what I think you're really asking - what would the effects of a global war be during that key transition point from the Allies and Central Powers to the Axis and Federation. Yes, some say the world turns on a London-Paris Axis, but the movement of Austria-Hungary to a model based on the US resulted in an economic powerhouse no one anticipated that *somehow* remains together to this day. Yes, they adopted Espranto as their common language so everyone had to learn something new and darn if 1923 wasn't an awkward year for their government. And yes we all expect it to fall apart but there it is next season, almost like it were the Knot's Landing of G*d's cable network - it just keeps going somehow. But for heaven's sakes the sheer number of butterflies and changes to our world would be almost beyond measure. Russia would probably have become a Republic, maybe even Communist. Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and Greece might not be the success story of the century and could still hate each other. Maybe the Middle East becomes a land of warlords and petty dictators instead of Persia overrunning so much of it and the Rashidian Emirate not controlling the rest. Maybe the Trucial States do not expand to cover the whole coastline of the peninsula, maybe the United States remains 48 states instead of fracturing in a civil war that decimates so much of North America. Maybe they grow to control the entire continent! We don't know for sure but dagnabit it would be impossible to predict.
</rant>
 

Sigfried

Banned
<rant>
Lordy, lordy, not another one of these. C'mon folks, we just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Congress of Vienna - The only shots fired in anger on the continent of Europe since 1815 have been in muggings and police actions with very few exceptions. A World War in the 20th century would have been a bloody affair without peer, and that's what I think you're really asking - what would the effects of a global war be during that key transition point from the Allies and Central Powers to the Axis and Federation. Yes, some say the world turns on a London-Paris Axis, but the movement of Austria-Hungary to a model based on the US resulted in an economic powerhouse no one anticipated that *somehow* remains together to this day. Yes, they adopted Espranto as their common language so everyone had to learn something new and darn if 1923 wasn't an awkward year for their government. And yes we all expect it to fall apart but there it is next season, almost like it were the Knot's Landing of G*d's cable network - it just keeps going somehow. But for heaven's sakes the sheer number of butterflies and changes to our world would be almost beyond measure. Russia would probably have become a Republic, maybe even Communist. Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and Greece might not be the success story of the century and could still hate each other. Maybe the Middle East becomes a land of warlords and petty dictators instead of Persia overrunning so much of it and the Rashidian Emirate not controlling the rest. Maybe the Trucial States do not expand to cover the whole coastline of the peninsula, maybe the United States remains 48 states instead of fracturing in a civil war that decimates so much of North America. Maybe they grow to control the entire continent! We don't know for sure but dagnabit it would be impossible to predict.
</rant>

The Moment you call French-Prussian War a Mugging, Your British are nuts.
 
The Moment you call French-Prussian War a Mugging, Your British are nuts.

I could call the Franco-Prussian War a lot of things, but mugging seemed polite and preferrable to the alternatives. Perhaps it is irony that the Battle of the Shrimp / Battle of Camaron in Mexico was one of France's finest hours after Napoleon. There is a reason Luxembourg joined Germany in 1923 and the Low Countries gravitate so much more to Berlin than Paris, and it was not the kindness of Wilhelm III or Louis I. Next I suppose we will ask what might happen if the Creditanstalt Crisis in 1931 resulted in its collapse or if it became the herald of some catastrophic global economic downturn?
 
<rant>
Lordy, lordy, not another one of these. C'mon folks, we just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the Congress of Vienna - The only shots fired in anger on the continent of Europe since 1815 have been in muggings and police actions with very few exceptions. A World War in the 20th century would have been a bloody affair without peer, and that's what I think you're really asking - what would the effects of a global war be during that key transition point from the Allies and Central Powers to the Axis and Federation. Yes, some say the world turns on a London-Paris Axis, but the movement of Austria-Hungary to a model based on the US resulted in an economic powerhouse no one anticipated that *somehow* remains together to this day. Yes, they adopted Espranto as their common language so everyone had to learn something new and darn if 1923 wasn't an awkward year for their government. And yes we all expect it to fall apart but there it is next season, almost like it were the Knot's Landing of G*d's cable network - it just keeps going somehow. But for heaven's sakes the sheer number of butterflies and changes to our world would be almost beyond measure. Russia would probably have become a Republic, maybe even Communist. Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and Greece might not be the success story of the century and could still hate each other. Maybe the Middle East becomes a land of warlords and petty dictators instead of Persia overrunning so much of it and the Rashidian Emirate not controlling the rest. Maybe the Trucial States do not expand to cover the whole coastline of the peninsula, maybe the United States remains 48 states instead of fracturing in a civil war that decimates so much of North America. Maybe they grow to control the entire continent! We don't know for sure but dagnabit it would be impossible to predict.
</rant>
We're not really asking for effects of a war, but capping it off at 4 or 5 years, no italian or even american entry, who wins? My money is on the Entente because AH's army was kinda ass at this point, while Russia was industrialized to stand it's ground at least and big enough Germany would have to go really far to be a threat on top of having two fronts.

I could call the Franco-Prussian War a lot of things, but mugging seemed polite and preferrable to the alternatives. Perhaps it is irony that the Battle of the Shrimp / Battle of Camaron in Mexico was one of France's finest hours after Napoleon. There is a reason Luxembourg joined Germany in 1923 and the Low Countries gravitate so much more to Berlin than Paris, and it was not the kindness of Wilhelm III or Louis I. Next I suppose we will ask what might happen if the Creditanstalt Crisis in 1931 resulted in its collapse or if it became the herald of some catastrophic global economic downturn?
Honestly the French Conquest of Mexico and Colombia pulling latin America into Paris's fold is probably the best thing Napoleon IV could've done. Of course it required the US's collapse and used the nebulous Hapsburg claim but honestly it showed that France was still a powerhouse, despite Germany.
 
police actions

We’ve dealt with the mugging but calling 1848 or 1871 or 1933 or 1959 police actions is a curious way to pose the question of the nations, armed socialist maximalism, or syndicalist communes.
 
Top