DBAHC: Screw Pan Am

[Apollo 20]

OOC: If my information is correct, Flight 194 would probably be a 747SP with a three class seating arrangement that was filled to capacity. Assuming no survivors, it would be in the top 10 most deadliest crashes in history but it wouldn't be in the top 5.

OOC: I'm confused here. the 747SP was never operated by American and was a short fuselage, long range version of the -100/200. The Pan Am version of the -100 carries 381 passengers while the Pan Am version of the SP carried only 233. If you want a crash in 1990 with a particularly high fatality count, perhaps you need a -400, which generally had a capacity just north of 400 passengers (Northwest carried 404 plus crew). http://www.departedflights.com/NW7441094.html

 

[Tales Weaver]

(OCC: Sorry for the double post but I thought of something else to contribute)
What probably kept Pan Am from being considered more of the unofficial flag carrier was their lack of confidence in American airline manufacturers. McDonald Douglas's reputation was already in tatters because of Turkish Airlines flight 981 when American Airlines flight 191 happened resulting in the grounding of all DC-10s. Boeing's 747s were having problems with locked cargo doors spontaneously unlocking themselves and engines coming off in flight. Not to mention the 737s started taking nose dives into the ground after hitting turbulence. Lockheed's L-1011 was a dud that didn't have the range and fuel efficiency originally promised. It was no wonder they turned to Airbus at the earliest opportunity.

And that caused Russian Airliners to find a niche market in US airlines upon perestroika.

 

[Whiteshore]

So, how horrible do you think was Flight 24 to those who witnessed it being brought down?

 

[omega13a]

OOC: I'm confused here. the 747SP was never operated by American and was a short fuselage, long range version of the -100/200. The Pan Am version of the -100 carries 381 passengers while the Pan Am version of the SP carried only 233. If you want a crash in 1990 with a particularly high fatality count, perhaps you need a -400, which generally had a capacity just north of 400 passengers (Northwest carried 404 plus crew). http://www.departedflights.com/NW7441094.html

OOC: According to my sources, American Airlines operated 747SPs from 1986 to 1994. It was the last type of 747s they operated. Your probably thinking of 747SRs which were only sold to airlines in Japan if I recall.

 

[omega13a]

So, how horrible do you think was Flight 24 to those who witnessed it being brought down?

It would seemed like the end of the world. Debris falling from the sky and a ball of fire crashing on top of a giant skyscraper...

 

[Whiteshore]

It would seemed like the end of the world. Debris falling from the sky and a ball of fire crashing on top of a giant skyscraper...

Yea, 2,253 people died when Flight 24 was brought down. The pop culture impact was immense not only from the carnage but due to the celebrities killed on Flight 24.

 

[omega13a]

Yea, 2,253 people died when Flight 24 was brought down. The pop culture impact was immense not only from the carnage but due to the celebrities killed on Flight 24.

Not to mention the business world. A lot of companies where wiped out or nearly so. The crash even caused the Concorde to be retired early because a lot of people who would have or authorize someone in their company to travel by Concorde died.

 

[Whiteshore]

So, what do you think was the most severe impact of Flight 24 on pop culture?

 

[Tales Weaver]

So, what do you think was the most severe impact of Flight 24 on pop culture?

Death of River Phoenix, obviously.

 

[Whiteshore]

Death of River Phoenix, obviously.

He was on Flight 194, not on Flight 24.

 

[Tales Weaver]

He was on Flight 194, not on Flight 24.

Sorry for confusing the two. for flight 24, we saw death of Selena. a great musician.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Screw PanAm.
Is that like 'Fly United'? 'Coffee, tea or me'?
Mile High club as the rewards program?

 

[Tales Weaver]

Screw PanAm.
Is that like 'Fly United'? 'Coffee, tea or me'?
Mile High club as the rewards program?

No. i meant the challenge was to screw Pan Am, i.e.to make Pan Am Bankrupt.

 

[Tales Weaver]

Other airlines don't get it that people are willing to pay a little extra to be treated like a human being and not have to worry about some piece of the airplane falling off mid-flight.

Or be dragged off the airplane to make room for a deadheading airline employee.

 

[Tales Weaver]

Also,Pan Am had US domestic flights from 1950s.

 

[Whiteshore]

So, what could have saved American Airlines, anyways?

 

[Zheng He]

So, what could have saved American Airlines, anyways?

Consolidation is going to happen, it's just a matter which airline succeeds more and absorbs another. Have a TL where American does better and sucks up United.

 

[fscott]

How would Pan am under him would look like? He revolutionized air travel with 707s.

He also had unprecedented input for for the 747.

 

[SactoMan101]

Another big plus for Pan Am was the fact they provided a LOT of input on the A330 and A340 models. The A330-300 proved to be an ideal plane for Pan Am's very busy transatlantic routes (especially when Airbus offered a higher weight version that increased the range to 6,200 nautical miles), and it was Pan Am's 40 plane A340-300 order that forced the International Aero Engines consortium to develop the V3000 SuperFan engine rated at 41,000 lb. thrust for the A340. The A340-300 with the V3000 proved to be quite popular, especially since it could fly over-water routes with no restrictions (Qantas ended up buying 20 planes because it could fly from Sydney to South America and South Africa with the most fuel-efficient routing).

 

[Whiteshore]

So, how would Tupelov and Ilyushin have been affected by Pan Am being screwed over? Historically, after Gorbachev's reforms to the USSR (which helped it last to the present day), Tupelov and Ilyushin found western customers in Pan Am.