DBAHC: Prussia Unifies Germany

So this is kind of a long shot, not as much as say Anhalt or Mecklenburg doing this, but I'm really curious on how the Duchy of Prussia could've unified Germany. I'm mainly curious since the duchy is more remembered as "That damnable patch of land" which fed the great Polish-German feuds throughout the last couple of centuries.
 
Tough one. Prussia was- is, since it's still a province of Poland- on the periphery of the German-speaking lands, and the Poles had a tight hold over it since the fifteenth century at least.

So bear with me here, but according to five minutes of research, the key trait that doomed Prussia was its crappy rulers. Even in its pre-Polish incarnation as the Teutonic Order, most of its grandmasters already had one foot in the grave. And after it was forcibly secularized(?), its Dukes were notoriously inward-looking... until the Prussian War of Independence in 1683, which saw a Piast (old, loyal Polish family) take the throne.

So of nearby rulers, who actually had a chance at intervening in Polish police actions, what seems to be a consistently reliable dynasty is the Hohenzollerns. Middling but competent, they delivered a fair number of brilliant administrators and generals, until the neutering of Brandenburg in the Baltic Conflagration.

Other than that it looks like you'd need a miracle. A miracle of the House of Brandenburg, if I might be glib (has a certain ring to it, I think).
 
It probably does take some fudging. It's not like luck of that nature happens often (*cough*Sweden against Russia*cough*), so I reckon getting them to do it and giving them the luck Sweden had in the 17th century would be needed for this to even be possible. Kind of sad really. I was just thinking of some off the wall states that could have a chance, besides the obvious ones. The other state I was interested in was actually Tyrol, since they did pretty well up until Austria and Carinthia began to shadow them in the 15th century.
 
Maybe France would be the benefactor of this new Germany. I imagine a state that is based on the opposite side of the potential Germany would be will to tolerate it's Rhenish ambitions, at least better than the kingdom of Germany OTL.
It probably does take some fudging. It's not like luck of that nature happens often (*cough*Sweden against Russia*cough*), so I reckon getting them to do it and giving them the luck Sweden had in the 17th century would be needed for this to even be possible. Kind of sad really. I was just thinking of some off the wall states that could have a chance, besides the obvious ones. The other state I was interested in was actually Tyrol, since they did pretty well up until Austria and Carinthia began to shadow them in the 15th century.
Luck of that nature happens a lot, it's just mostly bad luck. Poor France, every time it seams to rise above some powers it gets knock down by useless rulers or invasion. Seriously how did they alienate the Wallonians in the Franco-Dutch war
 
That I can answer: Charles VII actually was somehow a worse overseer than the Dutch, who tended to give them more of a say nationally with their quasi-democracy of the period. Though that was more due to a timing issue, since Wallonia got hit bad by poor times, like a lot of northern Europe in the period. He needed more men and money from a place that just didn't have it at the time.
 
Firstly, you'd have to nerf Poland. Maybe prevent them from passing the ruling on qualified majority voting in the Sejm - politics in the Commonwealth were notoriously fractious before it evolved into the behemoth of Eastern Europe.

Then, you need to get the Dukes of Prussia onto the throne of one of the HRE stronger states. With intermarriage being commonplace between the German states, this isn't implausible. Brandenburg or Saxony would be good candidates, depending on exactly when the union takes place.

Maybe somehow wangle the Duke onto the Imperial throne? (But they still have to keep hold of it.)
 
Firstly, you'd have to nerf Poland. Maybe prevent them from passing the ruling on qualified majority voting in the Sejm - politics in the Commonwealth were notoriously fractious before it evolved into the behemoth of Eastern Europe.

Then, you need to get the Dukes of Prussia onto the throne of one of the HRE stronger states. With intermarriage being commonplace between the German states, this isn't implausible. Brandenburg or Saxony would be good candidates, depending on exactly when the union takes place.

Maybe somehow wangle the Duke onto the Imperial throne? (But they still have to keep hold of it.)
Well, you could have Brandenburg or whoever inherit Prussia, but how would that mean anything for Prussia? It'd just be Brandenburg-with-more-land uniting Germany, which isn't so fancy, and seems kind of counter to the whole point of the AHC.

If it inherited someone smaller at least you could maintain a country that was fundamentally Prussian while uniting Germany. Something like Mecklenburg would allow Prussia to then start making inroads along the baltic coast, eventually taking over Pommerania (preferably in bits and pieces so noone has any illusions about this still being Prussia-Mecklenburg), and from there expanding further to a size to beat Poland and then unite Germany.
 
Well, you could have Brandenburg or whoever inherit Prussia, but how would that mean anything for Prussia? It'd just be Brandenburg-with-more-land uniting Germany, which isn't so fancy, and seems kind of counter to the whole point of the AHC.

If it inherited someone smaller at least you could maintain a country that was fundamentally Prussian while uniting Germany. Something like Mecklenburg would allow Prussia to then start making inroads along the baltic coast, eventually taking over Pommerania (preferably in bits and pieces so noone has any illusions about this still being Prussia-Mecklenburg), and from there expanding further to a size to beat Poland and then unite Germany.

So, you'd have Berlin (a rather sleepy provincial city even to this day, even after the industrial revolution!) as the 'natural' capital of Germany instead of Munich as in OTL. Hmmmm. That's interesting, to say the least :)
 
So, you'd have Berlin (a rather sleepy provincial city even to this day, even after the industrial revolution!) as the 'natural' capital of Germany instead of Munich as in OTL. Hmmmm. That's interesting, to say the least :)
Or Brandenburg's capital shifts somewhere else. Nuremberg, Cologne, a completely new city... Or Gdansk maybe, if they have Prussia and are looking for a big city as capital rather than whereever they care for.

Even so, Berlin was the capital of a Prince Elector either way, so it'd probably remain a rather sleepy city even if it became capital of Germany. You might see a split between the de-facto capital (Munich, Frankfurt, Cologne, whichever) and the de-jure capital (Berlin).
 
Or Brandenburg's capital shifts somewhere else. Nuremberg, Cologne, a completely new city... Or Gdansk maybe, if they have Prussia and are looking for a big city as capital rather than whereever they care for.

Even so, Berlin was the capital of a Prince Elector either way, so it'd probably remain a rather sleepy city even if it became capital of Germany. You might see a split between the de-facto capital (Munich, Frankfurt, Cologne, whichever) and the de-jure capital (Berlin).

A good point! I actually really like the idea of the German capital being in Gdansk (what was the German name for the city, again? I doubt any German nation would use the Polish(!) name for their capital). I wonder if having a Baltic port as their capital would see Germany develop a focus more to the north and east than the southern and western focus of Germany in OTL. Maybe you would even see this ATL Germany involving itself in Nordic affairs or some such. Hmmm.
 
Well, you could have Brandenburg or whoever inherit Prussia, but how would that mean anything for Prussia? It'd just be Brandenburg-with-more-land uniting Germany, which isn't so fancy, and seems kind of counter to the whole point of the AHC.

If it inherited someone smaller at least you could maintain a country that was fundamentally Prussian while uniting Germany. Something like Mecklenburg would allow Prussia to then start making inroads along the baltic coast, eventually taking over Pommerania (preferably in bits and pieces so noone has any illusions about this still being Prussia-Mecklenburg), and from there expanding further to a size to beat Poland and then unite Germany.
I just realized you'd have to do it after Poland Forced secularization. Before that they were the Teutonic order and they would unlikely secularize themselves. And after that they were quasi-polish anyway, so would they have German Ambitions or Polish ones if they broke away from Poland?
 
I was thinking of doing one of these where one of the Protestant states unify Germany, but I had a hard time coming up with which Protestant state could do it. Brandenburg is not that bad a candidate.

If the dynasty ruling Prussia inherits one of the other German states, or vice versa, the merged state would probably still be known as Prussia. Since Prussia was outside the Holy Roman Empire, the Emperor might allow the ruler of Prussia to take the title "King of Prussia", you couldn't do this obviously with one of the states within the Empire, the exception being Bohemia.
 
I was thinking of doing one of these where one of the Protestant states unify Germany, but I had a hard time coming up with which Protestant state could do it. Brandenburg is not that bad a candidate.

If the dynasty ruling Prussia inherits one of the other German states, or vice versa, the merged state would probably still be known as Prussia. Since Prussia was outside the Holy Roman Empire, the Emperor might allow the ruler of Prussia to take the title "King of Prussia", you couldn't do this obviously with one of the states within the Empire, the exception being Bohemia.
Why in the world would the Emperor allow that? Burgundy tried for a royal title that might or might not be in the Empire, and they rather pointedly never got anywhere. King of a random Duchy in Poland? What next, a King of Poznan, King of Gdynia and King of Nowhere? The title would be a laughing stock before it even started.
 
ITs so weird - Prussians are not even Germans (sure the upper crust has a mix of Poles and Germans, but...).

I assume you must make an early POD - maybe the Teutonic order "germanizes" Prussia instead of trying to expand into the Baltics. Then (with the knights at the helm or not?) Prussia expands westward (into Pomorze maybe Poznan too) and also Germanize this lands too. This would make up a good power base - hell with luck they could also take Slask from the Poles. Then "Greater Prussia" could be the leader of Germany against the POLISH threat - the same way Bavaria was the Leader against the Anglo-French...

Another idea: what if the Asburgos concentrate on Germany instead of uniting the Italian States into the Imperio Romano Alta Nuovo (IRAN) - it would be as weird as if Prussia united Germany ...
 

Oh ya, that's true. If the Austrian Asburgos could've held on to their holdings in Austria, Bohemia and Hungary, it's possible that they could have centralized power in Wien similar to what they did in Madrid (before they were overthrown) and Florence.

Actually, why not? They did such a bang-up job in Italy, I'm sure they'd do well in Germany too.
 
Oh ya, that's true. If the Austrian Asburgos could've held on to their holdings in Austria, Bohemia and Hungary, it's possible that they could have centralized power in Wien similar to what they did in Madrid (before they were overthrown) and Florence.

Actually, why not? They did such a bang-up job in Italy, I'm sure they'd do well in Germany too.
Asburgos... that's like calling the Welfs Guelphs, or Gdansk Danzig. Nonsense - they are Habsburgs, even if they ended up being more famous elsewhere.

Fun fact: Persia is also called Iran in Farsi.
 
A good point! I actually really like the idea of the German capital being in Gdansk (what was the German name for the city, again? I doubt any German nation would use the Polish(!) name for their capital). I wonder if having a Baltic port as their capital would see Germany develop a focus more to the north and east than the southern and western focus of Germany in OTL. Maybe you would even see this ATL Germany involving itself in Nordic affairs or some such. Hmmm.
Possibly, I could see a nastier Germano-Polish rivalry that lasted longer than some minor squabbles on exactly where the border was if the capital was more to the east, akin to the Franco-Germano rivalry that ranks second to the Franco-English one.

Oh ya, that's true. If the Austrian Asburgos could've held on to their holdings in Austria, Bohemia and Hungary, it's possible that they could have centralized power in Wien similar to what they did in Madrid (before they were overthrown) and Florence.

Actually, why not? They did such a bang-up job in Italy, I'm sure they'd do well in Germany too.
The situations were somewhat different though, what with the conflicting religions splitting the state as well as the region being loosely bound in an empire. The Aspergos were more figuratively open in Italy, since they both didn't have to deal with influence as often, and they were often quite close with the Pope. It also helped that during the 18th century they managed to union with Naples, which gave them the political and material capital to form Italy, or Imperial Rome as it was known back in the day. I'm fine with calling them by their more commonly used name now than their original German name, just like we do with Persia's royal family, who also was a cadet branch of a more famous lineage that went native.
 
Asburgos... that's like calling the Welfs Guelphs, or Gdansk Danzig. Nonsense - they are Habsburgs, even if they ended up being more famous elsewhere.

Fun fact: Persia is also called Iran in Farsi.

Habsburgs, Asburgos, Aspergos.

Look, the "burg" in the former indicates their German roots and is therefore used by historians as a shorthand for the junior Austrian branch. Asburgos is the term used to denote the modern Hispanicized Habsburgs as we know them, a Latin colloquialism for the Spanish, Italian and Hungarian kings. Aspergos as far as I know is slang in the old colonies for the Asburgos.

Anyway screw you, I'm Hungarian and the Asburgos were way better than the Habsburgs ever were. Before the Esterházys took over they helped us to build a proper national culture and lent us credence as an independent state- even gave us the necessary support to gank the Ottomans and Magyarize the Danube.
 
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