DBAHC: England Wank?

Otl, England, after constant ravaging by Danish invaders, norman invaders, norwegians, basically everyone, and the black death, had been rendered a rump state on the Danish Sea as Scotland and Wales expanded and eventually united, with the Celtic Kingdom of Britain absorbing England and Ireland, claiming all of Britain by 1480. Its navy rivaled by only Denmark, and wealth matched only by perhaps the low countries. Lothian has long been considered the Northern Rome, never once taken by a foreign power.

The CB, of course, went on to colonize Darien, eastern America, grab Brazil from the portuguese, Thailand and Cambodia, as well as almost all of east africa spare the French Cape and Danish Ethiopia.

But what if that didn't happen? What if one of those invasions is successful enough the population is replaced, or just never happened? Would England, of all nations, conquer the isles and create a true colonial empire? Or would Denmark simply run the seas as it's own personal bank?
 
I think you can't underestimate how useless King Aethelwold was in the late 9th Century. Yes, he was the senior Aethling at the time, and yes, he was the eldest son of King Aethelred but he was a minor, even by Saxon standards, and was from all accounts, spoilt and stubborn. Perhaps should his uncle, Alfred, have been given the crown instead as he had campaigned to be done, the Saxon forces would not have crumbled at the Battle of Edington in 878.

This meant both Aethelwold and his brother were dead, Alfred was not in a position to mount an effective defence of the realm and this Guthrum the Old marched into Winchester, proclaimed his rule, and then became the first King of the Saxons.

I mean, you could wonder, what if the Saxons had won at Edington. But I don't see any way with Aethelwold I'm charge, other than divine act of God, that this gets done.
 
The English were an introverted race, perhaps due to Winchester being so far inland. Perhaps if a forward thinking king moved the capital to a port say to Portsmouth, that may give impetus to a maritime trading economy.
 
I suppose had Alfred lead the Saxon army at Edington, Guthrum would have beaten back. We knew Alfred was a able leader considering the proto-guerilla war he waged prior to Edington.
 
I suppose had Alfred lead the Saxon army at Edington, Guthrum would have beaten back. We knew Alfred was a able leader considering the proto-guerilla war he waged prior to Edington.

Mind you his name has been tarnished over the centuries as most of the Saxon rebellions and later terrorist groups invoked his memory in some way. Remember the various iterations of "The Sons of Alfred" in the last 100 years.
 
I suppose as well that if the Battle of Conwy resulted either in a Welsh loss or Mercia and Wales reaching a relative stalemate, things might have turned out differently. With bit less power behind them, Wales might not achieve overlordship of Western Mercia, might not take on European ideas of inheritance which stopped territory being divided amongst sons, and a King of the Britons may never have emerged.

I guess it depends on where you start your count of King of the Britons, with Rhodri I, Anarawd I or a century later with Athaulf the Strong.
 
I suppose as well that if the Battle of Conwy resulted either in a Welsh loss or Mercia and Wales reaching a relative stalemate, things might have turned out differently. With bit less power behind them, Wales might not achieve overlordship of Western Mercia, might not take on European ideas of inheritance which stopped territory being divided amongst sons, and a King of the Britons may never have emerged.

I guess it depends on where you start your count of King of the Britons, with Rhodri I, Anarawd I or a century later with Athaulf the Strong.

It also helped that the Danelaw and Dublin got into a huge war over the Isle of Man, allowing Idwal the 'Wise', son of Anarawd to take control of Somerset and claim overlordship over Cornwall.

Which in turn allowed Wales to secure to most of Wessex when Guthrum II died.
 
It also helped that the Danelaw and Dublin got into a huge war over the Isle of Man, allowing Idwal the 'Wise', son of Anarawd to take control of Somerset and claim overlordship over Cornwall.

Which in turn allowed Wales to secure to most of Wessex when Guthrum II died.

Agreed, it's easy to forget role The Battle of Sodor played in history. Wales had Wessex essentially blocked in between them, the Channel to the South and the forces of King Ragnar of Kent to the East. Ragnar decimated Guthrum II's ships, slaughtered most of his Fyrd, Danes and mercs. It's no wonder that Ragnar swarmed in and signed an easy truce with Idwal - they clearly knew that Welsh and Kentish forces facing in battle would see mutual annihilation.
 
Agreed, it's easy to forget role The Battle of Sodor played in history. Wales had Wessex essentially blocked in between them, the Channel to the South and the forces of King Ragnar of Kent to the East. Ragnar decimated Guthrum II's ships, slaughtered most of his Fyrd, Danes and mercs. It's no wonder that Ragnar swarmed in and signed an easy truce with Idwal - they clearly knew that Welsh and Kentish forces facing in battle would see mutual annihilation.
Yup, with Ragnar's force receiving quite a mauling destroying Guthrum's forces, Idwal was able to consolidate his gains and promote literacy amongst his subjects, leading to several prominent Welsh writers emerging during that time.
 
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