DB: Christianity and Wine

ninebucks

Banned
Perhaps some of you have seen this map floating about, the thick blue line is an estimation of the northernmost extent of vineyards, (and, conversely, the southern border of the lands where beer-making is predominant).

The thin red line represents the political border established in the 1639 Treaty of Nancy, the treaty that established the rule of 'cuius regio, eius religio', and laid the framework for modern state sovereignty. It is also represents the border between Christian and Pagan Europe.

So is this some profound cultural signifier, is there something about the drinking of wine that inspires people to follow a hierarchical, monotheistic religion, and something about the drinking of beer that inspires people to follow decentralised, more mystical polytheistic religions? Or is it just a coincidence, and could the line that eventually divided Christian and Pagan Europe possible fallen any degree further north, or further south?

winextianty.png
 
Perhaps some of you have seen this map floating about, the thick blue line is an estimation of the northernmost extent of vineyards, (and, conversely, the southern border of the lands where beer-making is predominant).

The thin red line represents the political border established in the 1639 Treaty of Nancy, the treaty that established the rule of 'cuius regio, eius religio', and laid the framework for modern state sovereignty. It is also represents the border between Christian and Pagan Europe.

So is this some profound cultural signifier, is there something about the drinking of wine that inspires people to follow a hierarchical, monotheistic religion, and something about the drinking of beer that inspires people to follow decentralised, more mystical polytheistic religions? Or is it just a coincidence, and could the line that eventually divided Christian and Pagan Europe possible fallen any degree further north, or further south?

Not looking for a fight, but your line doesn't include the northern Alpine region between the Danube and the Rhine (OCC - Baveria), home of some of the best beers in the civilized world.
And how would you include the Fuisce or Uisce beatha of the Irish or the usquebaugh of the Picts and the Scotti?
 
Not looking for a fight, but your line doesn't include the northern Alpine region between the Danube and the Rhine (OCC - Baveria), home of some of the best beers in the civilized world.

It sounds like regions that produce both beer and wine are grouped into the wine region. The line addresses wine; the impact of beer becomes secondary to the premise of this thread.
 
Not sure when that Line is suppose to represent.

Remembre the Romans grew Grapes in South England for Wine.

As for your Question

Wine is a more labor intensive, longer term, process than Beer Making. [having made both]
Wine producers need a more Stable Environment. There are fewer Wineries than Beer Breweries.
However I think that line represents Roman Stability/Volkwandertang divide more than a wine Beer Divide.
 
Not looking for a fight, but your line doesn't include the northern Alpine region between the Danube and the Rhine (OCC - Baveria), home of some of the best beers in the civilized world.
And how would you include the Fuisce or Uisce beatha of the Irish or the usquebaugh of the Picts and the Scotti?
Yes, the civilized world. It's obvious that anyone who drinks beer and not wine is uncivilized.
 
Some early Christian sects used water rather than wine as the consecratory species. The use of water as a consecratory element in the non-wine producing areas of Europe is completely ASB, since the period in which we are talking is about 2nd to 3rd century CE, no where near the missionary age to Northern Europe. Both Rome and Constantinople were consecrating wine at Mass by the time of northern European missionary work, and had been doing so for quite some time.

Almost any edible berry can be fermented to some degree. However, I would wager that by this time the only acceptable wine for Mass would be grape wine, and not wine from any other berry. Then again, communication as it was, I would not be surprised if northern Europeans conscrated "wine" not made of grape. But I'm sure Rome would have questioned the validity of such a Mass.

I strongly doubt that missionaries would try to consecrate beer (or even mead) for Mass. But at the same time, I would not be surprised if such a thing did happpen OTL.
 
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