Days of Infamy: Invasion, Occupation, and Liberation of Hawaii (1941-1943)

[Deleted member 2186]

Not just that, but given that Japan committed war crimes through their treatment of POWs under King Stanleys nose, the Royal Hawaaiin army will be forever branded as worst traitors than Benedict Arnold.

I can imagine that the rest of the former Royal Hawaiian family members who where smart enough to refuse the Japanese offer to have one of them put back on the Hawaiian throne are not going to raise the question ever again of having the Kingdom resorted after all of this, now that the name Kingdom of Hawaii is synonyms with collaboration with the Empire of Japan during the War.

 

[Matt Wiser]

There will be no Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement as we've seen in recent years, and though it's a fringe movement, anyone TTL who even raises the idea is going to be dismissed.

 

[Bbone91]

There will be no Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement as we've seen in recent years, and though it's a fringe movement, anyone TTL who even raises the idea is going to be dismissed.

If not get arrested for treason.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

If not get arrested for treason.

Think not arrested for treason, mostly treated the same way as modern day Neo-Nazi groups in America.

 

[KeeCoyote]

Hated by Hawaiians for ruining it for them as well as thought as general nutters by everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Hated by Hawaiians for ruining it for them as well as thought as general nutters by everyone else.

That most likely is what will happen.

 

[Alterwright]

Say, for the Royal Hawaiian Army, if you guys were going to give them an identifying armband for patrols in urban areas, what would be the design?

Asking because I think that would be one of the cheapest options they'd have to identify them.

 

[Bbone91]

Say, for the Royal Hawaiian Army, if you guys were going to give them an identifying armband for patrols in urban areas, what would be the design?

Asking because I think that would be one of the cheapest options they'd have to identify them.

Huh, good question. I’d say either a map the one or all of the Hawaiian Islands, or maybe a pineapple if you’re feeling whimsical. Not sure King Stanley would be able to draw on standard Hawaiian royal insignia, since the rest of the royal family wouldn’t touch the Japanese with a ten foot pole.

 

[Alterwright]

Huh, good question. I’d say either a map the one or all of the Hawaiian Islands, or maybe a pineapple if you’re feeling whimsical. Not sure King Stanley would be able to draw on standard Hawaiian royal insignia, since the rest of the royal family wouldn’t touch the Japanese with a ten foot pole.

A... a pineapple!

Hm. Well the idea behind an armband for the Royal Hawaiian Army would be to easily identify them in the streets of Honolulu or something. They'd likely wear uniforms captured from the US Army as surplus, which would put the Japanese forces even more on edge. They'd need an identifier to mark them out as friendlies.

Maybe a an armband with the Hawaiian symbol on it! There is a common symbol on both the coat-of-arms of the royal Hawaiian flag and the Kanaka Maoli flag...

^^^ --- Perhaps this shield with crossed yellow spears. Have it put on a white arm-band and with Japanese kanji and an English translation saying "Royal Army" or something.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Say, for the Royal Hawaiian Army, if you guys were going to give them an identifying armband for patrols in urban areas, what would be the design?

Asking because I think that would be one of the cheapest options they'd have to identify them.

The flag of Hawaii, because i like that design.

 

[Alterwright]

The flag of Hawaii, because i like that design.

Fair point, I like the stripes on the flag. Perhaps the stripes with the royal coat of arms in front of the stripes?

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Fair point, I like the stripes on the flag. Perhaps the stripes with the royal coat of arms in front of the stripes?

Its like the Nazis using their flag as their identifying armband, so why not have loyal Hawaiian Army soldiers where the Hawaiian flag as their identifying armband.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Its like the Nazis using their flag as their identifying armband, so why not have loyal Hawaiian Army soldiers where the Hawaiian flag as their identifying armband.

Seems a bit too close to the US Stars-and-stripes, and of course the Union Jack. Something closer to the Rising Sun, or different entirely, would make snap-identification easier. Pineapple-on-White-field might seem silly, but it’s the least likely to spook Japanese soldiers.

 

[Alterwright]

Seems a bit too close to the US Stars-and-stripes, and of course the Union Jack. Something closer to the Rising Sun, or different entirely, would make snap-identification easier. Pineapple-on-White-field might seem silly, but it’s the least likely to spook Japanese soldiers.

Indeed! I personally like this symbol I circled below. It shows up on both the royal coat-of-arms and the Kanaka Maoli flag.

^^^ --- Two crossed spears and a... paddle? Palm leaf? On a green shield, in front of a white background, with possible Kanji on either side saying "Royal Army".

 

[Bbone91]

Why not purple armbands? Purple is the color of royalty, and since they’re the ROYAL Hawaiian army.

 

[Alterwright]

Why not purple armbands? Purple is the color of royalty, and since they’re the ROYAL Hawaiian army.

Well, sure, why not, if they can get the dye for it. These are just the symbols and colors used by the Hawaiians after all.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Why not purple armbands? Purple is the color of royalty, and since they’re the ROYAL Hawaiian army.

Yellow might be more appropriate, since the distinguishing regalia of Hawaiian kings was that cloak of yellow feathers.

So I’m thinking the aforementioned spear-and-paddle design on a green shield on a yellow field would be best. In shape, it’s not too far off from the Japanese ‘meatball,’ and it has no resemblance to Anglo-American colors.

Tbh, I’d expect the Hawaiians to plan to make a green-and-yellow design official after the war, to symbolize their rejection of white domination.

EDIT: if there’s a Royal Hawaiian Air Force (maybe flying obsolete or salvaged American planes?) I’d expect them to carry something like that shield as their marker. Wearing a Union Jack would just be too confusing.

 

[Alterwright]

Yellow might be more appropriate, since the distinguishing regalia of Hawaiian kings was that cloak of yellow feathers.

So I’m thinking the aforementioned spear-and-paddle design on a green shield on a yellow field would be best. In shape, it’s not too far off from the Japanese ‘meatball,’ and it has no resemblance to Anglo-American colors.

Tbh, I’d expect the Hawaiians to plan to make a green-and-yellow design official after the war, to symbolize their rejection of white domination.

EDIT: if there’s a Royal Hawaiian Air Force (maybe flying obsolete or salvaged American planes?) I’d expect them to carry something like that shield as their marker. Wearing a Union Jack would just be too confusing.

That's a good design too. And also brings up another topic --- a Royal Hawaiian Air Force.

Now, from the books so far, it sounds like there wasn't an air force for the Hawaiians that followed King Stanley. The Japanese in general did not trust the king or his followers enough to even issue them with live ammo for their guns apparently, much less spare the planes to make an independent Hawaiian air-force.

Which is too bad. I think it would have been cool. That marker would make a very nice roundel.

If the Hawaiians were to have their own air-force, it would likely be consisted of the captured US planes still in Hawaii. So, Brewster Buffalos and P-40 Warhawks, but the trouble would be to find trainers. If the air force were issued with Japanese planes, the issue would be to find spare planes.

 

[Bbone91]

That's a good design too. And also brings up another topic --- a Royal Hawaiian Air Force.

Now, from the books so far, it sounds like there wasn't an air force for the Hawaiians that followed King Stanley. The Japanese in general did not trust the king or his followers enough to even issue them with live ammo for their guns apparently, much less spare the planes to make an independent Hawaiian air-force.

Which is too bad. I think it would have been cool. That marker would make a very nice roundel.

If the Hawaiians were to have their own air-force, it would likely be consisted of the captured US planes still in Hawaii. So, Brewster Buffalos and P-40 Warhawks, but the trouble would be to find trainers. If the air force were issued with Japanese planes, the issue would be to find spare planes.

Yeah, wasn’t there also a flight of B-17s at Pearl?

 

[Matt Wiser]

The puppet king did get his air force: half a dozen decrepit Ki-43 Oscars. (End of the Beginning, pp. 169-70) His problem was finding pilots small enough to fit in the cockpit. They were probably still in Japan, learning how to fly, when the islands were liberated by U.S. forces. They were likely given a choice: Fly for Japan or else...

On p. 289, the briefing officer (probably the Squadron's Air Intelligence Officer) for Crosetti's squadron (likely VF-17) mentions "Our assets on Oahu". Want to bet that those were either Marine Raiders or even OSS teams sent in by submarine? No actual guerilla warfare, mind, but they were sent in to observe and report.

EDIT: the B-17s that were at Hickam or the flight of 12 that came in during the attack were in all likelihood wrecked. Either by Japanese action or destroyed to prevent capture.