Danish Rupert's Land

Instead of Britain getting the Hudson's Bay, couldn't Denmark end up grabbing the region by extending its hold past Greenland?

Wpdms_ruperts_land.jpg


Suppose Denmark gets the region by 1670, butterflying British control away. How would this effect North America's development?
 

birdboy2000

Banned
The Danish hold on Greenland in 1670 was a paper claim, not a launching pad for future expeditions. It would be fifty more years until Hans Egede reestablished Danish contact with the island.
 
Could the Danes really hold onto that land though, in the face of aggression from the English and French? The fur trade wasn't that valuable, and I'm not sure they would fight too hard for sub-arctic real estate.
 
Could the Danes really hold onto that land though, in the face of aggression from the English and French? The fur trade wasn't that valuable, and I'm not sure they would fight too hard for sub-arctic real estate.

Technically, that same argument could apply to the English and French couldn't it? It's not like the English cared all that much about the fur trade compared to France.

That being said, I do have to wonder whether Denmark has the manpower to make such a landgrab stick.
 
My vote is that the British would get it eventually by grabbing the Danish Virgin Islands and trading for it after a war. Like how the French chose to give up their mainland claims in North America in favor of getting back a sugar island. Or during the Napoleonic Wars the British hold all the Dano-Norwegian islands hostage and perhaps use them in a trade-off. Might be fun having it come into play during the Baltic War, if it is decided that trying to get the German possessions of the Danish and Swedish Kings for Hannover isn't worth it to the British. Then you can juggle New Sweden and their various ports and islands over the Atlantic and Indian Oceans. Everyone getting good commercial privileges might assist, as their land asn't the best anyways. Still, having neutral or friendly powers spread around the world would be in Britain's favor. For the Hudson's Bay we should also elaborate on the borders. The company grant was for the bay's drainage basin, which could be troublesome given how much was known about inland rivers. The Americans got a fair bit of land by a misunderstanding about the source of the Mississippi and some scholars once thought the Nile was attached to the Niger.
 
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thats some serious butterfly nets ...

But if inspired early enough by the thought about people on Greenland still being Catholics (after Denmark converted to Lutherianism) might push a Hans Egede forward in time by some amount of time ... and then you have a decent launch pad, to go explore america.

Prime contender for Danish colonization attempts out of Greenland would probably be New Foundland through claiming it as Vinland, and then go from there

...

All that of can of cause fall easily when considering that untill 1814, Iceland, Faroes and Greenland was de jure parts (or some such, with varying degrees of autonomy) of Norway, not Denmark, and Norway just 'happened' to answer to the same royal head as Denmark
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
It's not that hard for it to be Danish, or Dutch--

It can be plausible, even with later PoDs than have been discussed.

The area was first mapped by Frenchmen, Grossiliers and Radisson. The powers that be in Montreal were quite comfortable with established trade routes via the St. Lawrence and saw the route through the Bay as undesirable competition, so Grossiliers and Radisson went to Boston and started working with the British (one or the other of them ended up opposing the British later).

What if they pitch their business proposition to Dutch, Swedish or Danish investors instead, meeting them in either New Amsterdam, the Caribbean or Europe?

Sweden and Denmark would certainly see themselves as markets for fur products, and so might be interested in the bay.

Keeping it can be a challenge, but its not implausible at all. Yes, any determined French or British effort to take over the area and hold it would be irresistible to the Danes, Dutch or Swedes, but lucky alliance politics or higher priorities for London or Paris could see the Bay held (or ultimately restored to) one of these alternate northern European colonizers over the long haul.

Ruperts land, the shores of its bay could end up as more the focus of Scandinavian migration to North America instead of Minnesota and Wisconsin.
 
Would be neat to see what kind of butterflies this would have in the long run - a more danish/norwegion north america mayhaps? At least initially...
 
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