Danish American War of 1855 - (recycled)

raharris1973

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(originally posted by a now banned member 5+ years ago)

US-Danish War of 1855

The sound controlling access to the Baltic sea is held as a right by the King of Denmark, right to the Swedish shore. By treaty access is unrestricted, but all ships pay a toll directly to the Danish King.

In 1855, the US announced that they were no longer going to pay the toll, and the Danes prepared for war to defend their rights, being fairly confident.

Denmark eventually acquiesed due to fear of the German states to the south to the US buying free passage in perpetuity for a one off payment.

What if the Danes had held their position, and fired upon US ships illegally entering the sound?

The US would most likely declare war (obviously :D)

This is followed by US seizes Danish shipping in American controlled waters, and most likely an US occupation of the Danish Virgin Island.

After that, probably not much as neither part is capable of projecting any real amount of power against the other.

After some time a peace is negotiated, were US probably gets the Virgin Islands, but OTOH must pay a hefty sum as companzation for this and access to the Baltic.

I would assume a war between the United States and Denmark is going to be a largely naval affair, IIRC the American Navy is not very strong at this time, but could be built up into a respectable force given sufficient time. Assuming the US is willing to commit the time and money needed for a proper naval buildup, Denmark is probably not going to win the war. I doubt the rest of Europe would be inclined to get involved, and other nations which regularly paid the Sound Due would probably be slightly sympathetic towards the Americans.

As far as the effects of such a war go, things could definately get interesting. Presuming an American victory the Sound Due is abolished for the US, and it seems likely that the US might attempt to acquire the Danish West Indies as well. Presumably the Danish would abolish the Sound Due for the rest of the world shortly after for a lump-sum payment as they did in OTL.

In the US, President Pierce's plummetting reputation might be salvaged by a victorious war against Denmark, and even a modest military buildup could have an effect upon the how much materiel and how many trained men are available at the outbreak of the war (IMO the US Civil War would not be averted by a trade war with Denmark). I am not knowledgeable enough in Danish history to speculate on the effects there, but I would imagine the Danish Navy will be battered and Denmark will be in a weaker position when/if war breaks out with the Germans over Schleswig-Holstein.

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A couple things strike me as interesting here, if matters did come to a Danish-American war.

An American attempt to acquire the Danish West Indies in the 1850s would be politically fraught.

American southern expansionists of an optimistic bent would see this as an opportunity to add a slave territory, if not a slave state.

Antislavery northerners would object to acquiring the islands for the very same reason.

However, the Danes had actually abolished slavery in the islands in 1848. Pessimistic proslavery southerners & racist northerners will not like the prospect of absorbing a free black population into the US. However, anti-slavery northerners would be all the more outraged at the prospect of re-enslaving free blacks.

Over in Europe, it remains an open question how much the US could send to test the sound dues and assert American claims of toll free passage into the Baltic.

However, in 1855, the greatest European powers (Britain, Russia, France) are busy with the Crimean War and in no position to help Denmark even if they wished.

In the meantime, states of the German Confederation have bitter and not too distant memories of the 1848-49 Schleswig war. Prussia in particular, is a non-participant in the Crimean War and might see a chance to get even and take Schleswig-Holstein for itself, or to redeem the Duchies for the German Confederation under another German prince.

Could we see a temporary US-Prussian, US-German Federal coalition vs. Denmark.

I'm not sure how many Danish-Americans there were at the time, I have a vague recollection that the bulk of Scandinavian migration to the US happened later than the 1850s. In any case, German-Americans far outnumber them.

Thoughts?
 
As long as this remains a localized and limited war, this can work if you don't have little Denmark behave too stupidly, which would turn It to ASB.

But, by that time, Britain is never ever going to let any power control Greenland, Iceland, nor threaten the independance of Denmark as an independant country guaranteeing free passage between the North sea and the Baltic sea.
 
Why would Britain care about Greenland and Iceland? Especially if it is the US that gets them? I mean there was talk of the US buying Greenland and no one blew a gasket about that except Americans. Now, the Faroes definitely. Britain would never allow anyone besides themselves to acquire those.
 
This is an interesting idea. Were the U.S. to acquire the Danish West Indies as a result of the war, they'd be merely a territory, but assuming that the course of events in the U.S. are broadly similar to OTL, perhaps, despite their small population, they are made a state during the Grant administration so that there is a state in the union of free people of color to hopefully reinforce the federal civil rights efforts of that era?
 
Why would Britain care about Greenland and Iceland? Especially if it is the US that gets them? I mean there was talk of the US buying Greenland and no one blew a gasket about that except Americans. Now, the Faroes definitely. Britain would never allow anyone besides themselves to acquire those.

Why would Britain care ?

Just look at a map. We are speaking of Britain of the golden age, not post WW2 Britain. So Britain would never allow an other great power taking control of Iceland and Greenland. It would pose a deadly threat.
 
Why would Britain care ?

Just look at a map. We are speaking of Britain of the golden age, not post WW2 Britain. So Britain would never allow an other great power taking control of Iceland and Greenland. It would pose a deadly threat.
I did look at a map and New England already is pretty damn close to Britain (a lot closer than it actually looks on said maps). Greenland and Iceland are pretty useless for naval ports because there is nothing there. You'd have to ship all your naval supplies to those places. They are only important as naval ports in some kind of Vinland timeline (and only because they would serve as a chokepoint to naval movements with the tech of the era) otherwise they are way too vulnerable. They become much more important when airplanes become a thing, but that's quite a ways off yet.

The problem is not so much Britain not allowing people to have them, but rather if anyone actually wants them.
 
I did look at a map and New England already is pretty damn close to Britain (a lot closer than it actually looks on said maps). Greenland and Iceland are pretty useless for naval ports because there is nothing there. You'd have to ship all your naval supplies to those places. They are only important as naval ports in some kind of Vinland timeline (and only because they would serve as a chokepoint to naval movements with the tech of the era) otherwise they are way too vulnerable. They become much more important when airplanes become a thing, but that's quite a ways off yet.

The problem is not so much Britain not allowing people to have them, but rather if anyone actually wants them.

There is a huge scale difference between 1,000 kilometers and 5,000 kilometers. Be it by boat or by plane.

Trust me, as soon as It became a great naval power, England/Britain would never have accepted an other great power holding Iceland. Be It the Habsburg Spain, France, the US, Germany or Russia.

It is not a matter of friendship or enmity.

It is a matter of geopolitics. "States have no friends but only interests" is a statement that was made for the first time in the english language by a british statesman.
 

raharris1973

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Does anybody have a guess as how the fleet strength, and fleet range of the USA and Denmark compared at this time?

Also, are we pretty sure it would be a duel, or might the Prussians be tempted to make a move?
 
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