Czechoslovakia fights back

Don Quijote

Banned
What if after the Munich Agreement and the annexation of the Sudetenland, the Czechoslovaks fought back when the Germans invaded in March 1939. Would Hungary intervene to make sure it got the land that it got IOTL? More importantly, if they hold out for any length of time, will the Czechs receive assistance (men and/or material) from Britain and France, or maybe the USSR and Poland?
 
With Sudatenland CS loses a lot of their defensive capabilities. The war may make the Germans take some casualties but not too muxh.
 

Don Quijote

Banned
With Sudatenland CS loses a lot of their defensive capabilities. The war may make the Germans take some casualties but not too muxh.

Yes, but what is the international reaction? Will Poland come to its assistance, knowing that it will be next,or will Hitler make an agreement with them to give them Czechoslovakian territory to keep then out of it? Or Hitler, seeing that the Czechs were prepared to stand and fight when pushed too far, may be less bold and arrogant when he decides to lay claim to the Polish corridor and Danzig.
 
Weren't parts of czechoslavakia annexed by Poland after the German invasion? Don't think that indicates that they would help.
 

Don Quijote

Banned
Weren't parts of czechoslavakia annexed by Poland after the German invasion? Don't think that indicates that they would help.

That was only a border dispute (if I remember right it dated back to the days of the Habsburgs and the Partitions of Poland), and was nothing compared to Germany's plans. Many Czechs fled to Poland, including servicemen willing to fight for them.
 
Weren't parts of czechoslavakia annexed by Poland after the German invasion? Don't think that indicates that they would help.
Well, maybe Czechs would be willing to give that area to Poland in exchange for defensive alliance?
Czechoslovakia could survive loss of Zaolzie, or border strip with Hungary, but not Sudetenland.
Check, loss of entire Slovakia would hurt them less than loss of Sudetenland!
 
That was only a border dispute (if I remember right it dated back to the days of the Habsburgs and the Partitions of Poland)
It was based around the border disputes in early 1919
In precise terms, Poland was assigned one-third of the population (142,000 out of 435,000), less than half of the territory (1002 km2. out of 2222), and the town of Cieszyn. Czechoslovakia received the districts of Fryštát and Frýdek, most of the area of the district of Cieszyn, the railway station of Cieszyn, Karviná and coal mines, Třinec with ironworks, and the whole Bohumin-Jablunkov railway line. Some 140,000 Poles were left on the Czech side

Once they lost the Sudetenland then everyone knew that they couldn't stand up to the Germans, The mountain lands and fortifications were really the only hope, and they could really only win by German's lack of fuel, and in combination with bad weather making the Germans take even more time.
I've done a short scenario on the Sudetenland war, so I'm pulling my own conclusions. Past the Sudetenland, is rather flat terrain which would mean that the German tanks would be able to be used effectively. and the only real defensive point would be along the present day Slovakian border.
 
Yes, but what is the international reaction? Will Poland come to its assistance, knowing that it will be next,or will Hitler make an agreement with them to give them Czechoslovakian territory to keep then out of it? Or Hitler, seeing that the Czechs were prepared to stand and fight when pushed too far, may be less bold and arrogant when he decides to lay claim to the Polish corridor and Danzig.

The Poles never had good relations with Czechoslovakia.
 
Czechoslovakia's best chance was telling Chamberlain & Daladier to shove it where the sun don't shine, that they were holding both Britain and France to their treaty obligations and Hitler to bring it.
 
Interesting although since they haven't fought over the Sudetenland (and basically losing all the fortifications/lines of defence etc), imo it's less likely they would do it now when they are totally exposed.

But IF somehow they do, makes one wonder what the french and UK do, still nothing or they actually declare war on Germany? There is no RM pact at this time, but anyway i doubt whatever assistance will make any difference, even if the soviets send significant quantities.

Of course, the germans WILL loose a portion of the tank, artillery, and production capacities that they got OTL, either destroyed in fighting or sabotaged etc.

Well, if somehow the UK and France do declare war in March-April, and probably still do nothing, the germans might forget about Poland and Danzig and attack France first (i'm sure there must be some TLs about just that scenario around) in summer/autumn. Of course, if the french/ UK are still as anemic and just sit there waiting for the germans to attack probably France is still occupied (probably they would be worse relative to the germans as far as military capability is concerned with a shorter drole the guerre, less production, hardly any US deliveries etc).
 
Well, maybe Czechs would be willing to give that area to Poland in exchange for defensive alliance?
Czechoslovakia could survive loss of Zaolzie, or border strip with Hungary, but not Sudetenland.
Check, loss of entire Slovakia would hurt them less than loss of Sudetenland!

Benes actually did consider resuming negotiations about Zaolzie, but held off on sending that offer hoping for good news from London and Paris and Moscow. Poland occupied Zaolzie on the day the agreement was signed.

If he sends the note sooner and Poland agrees to stand with Czechoslovakia against Germany (on the condition that the USSR is not a part of the war, or at least that its contribution is limited to the 100,000 men Romania agreed to let through), then the war might begin before the occupation of the Sudetenland. It could put Poland in the uncomfortable position of fighting on the same side as the USSR.

Between them, Poland and Czechoslovakia might actually have more tanks than Germany, so at least it doesn't look terrible for the West Slavs.
 
Interesting although since they haven't fought over the Sudetenland (and basically losing all the fortifications/lines of defence etc), imo it's less likely they would do it now when they are totally exposed.

It makes more sense as a spontaneous act of a military unit that is imitated by others and joined by civilians, overruling the Czechoslovak government rather than following its orders.
 
Benes actually did consider resuming negotiations about Zaolzie, but held off on sending that offer hoping for good news from London and Paris and Moscow. Poland occupied Zaolzie on the day the agreement was signed.

If he sends the note sooner and Poland agrees to stand with Czechoslovakia against Germany (on the condition that the USSR is not a part of the war, or at least that its contribution is limited to the 100,000 men Romania agreed to let through), then the war might begin before the occupation of the Sudetenland. It could put Poland in the uncomfortable position of fighting on the same side as the USSR.

Between them, Poland and Czechoslovakia might actually have more tanks than Germany, so at least it doesn't look terrible for the West Slavs.
However for you assumption you need signals from Warsaw to Prague that in case of solving "Zaolzie" question to satisfaction of "both" sides" Warsaw will support Prague! I believe there were not there.

However I am aware of some signals from Czechoslovak Officer corps to solve issues with Poland in order to wage successful defense against Germany. With allied Poland, Germans would be very likely screwed.
 
Czechoslovakia's best chance was telling Chamberlain & Daladier to shove it where the sun don't shine, that they were holding both Britain and France to their treaty obligations and Hitler to bring it.
I believe too Benes should gamble and told PMs before they road to Munich that whatever agreement they reach he is calling on the agreement.

Or bluff other way and offer Czechoslovak army and industry to Hitler's full disposal if Czechoslovak allies will continue to push him. That would be really funny too. ;)
 
Well, maybe Czechs would be willing to give that area to Poland in exchange for defensive alliance?
Czechoslovakia could survive loss of Zaolzie, or border strip with Hungary, but not Sudetenland.
Check, loss of entire Slovakia would hurt them less than loss of Sudetenland!
Actually loss of entire Slovakia would make Czechs totally surrounded by their enemies. Is that good idea?

Slovakia served as connection to allied Romania. Romania which had ports!
Some armament industry was already allocated to Slovakia in 1938 and reserves of strategic materials were held there.

Czechoslovakia could live with loss of Zaolzia, on example of 1st Slovak republic after Vienna 1938 we can assume Czechoslovakia could even do without Slovak southern territories with Hugarian majority. If Czechoslovakia offered Budapest territorial concession on lands with Hungarian majority for allowing supplies through Slovakia may even loose less the n it actually lost after Vienna Agreement as Hungarians actually got also territories with Slovak majority.
 
Actually loss of entire Slovakia would make Czechs totally surrounded by their enemies.
What enemy? Hungary? If Hungary gets Slovakia, she doesn't have any beef or other territorial claims against Bohemia.
Slovakia was less important that Sudetenland, since most industry and border fortifications was in Sudetenland.
Is that good idea?
What? No. You might hurt less by being kicked in the shins than in the balls, but it still hurts pretty fucking bad.
 
What enemy? Hungary? If Hungary gets Slovakia, she doesn't have any beef or other territorial claims against Bohemia.
Indeed but through Slovakia all railways from only Czechoslovak ally they had border with - Romania were coming. By giving up Slovakia Prague would give up any chance of possible resupplies.

Slovakia was less important that Sudetenland, since most industry and border fortifications was in Sudetenland.
Oh definitelly. On other side Czechoslovakia would be able to hold Hungarians with what it had in Slovakia. Hungarians were so fucking scared of Czechoslovak light fortification that whatever they got after Vienna agreement they were blowing up. Just in case somebody will not use it against them.

And there is one more thing. If Prague decided to defend, they actually counted with possibility of loosing in Czech lands and to use Slovak mountains as last line of defense before allied help will come. Well even if it didn't. Slovakia and Ruthenia can be used as retreat routes to Romania for potential use of men power in future war. Same way Poland used Romania and Hungary after it lost their war against Germany.
But well, Benes being Benes, different way was chosen.
 
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