[FONT="]What if, in the post-World War I discussion, the Allies created the new states of: Bosnia and Herzegovina (the area [FONT="]known as Republika Sprska belongs to Serbia), Croatia, the Czech Republic, Macedonia (Ilrida belongs to Albania), Montenegro, Serbia ([/FONT][FONT="]Sandžak[/FONT][FONT="] belongs to Bosnia and Herzegovina, [/FONT][FONT="]Preševo Valley and Kosovo belongs to Albania; North Kosovo belongs to Serbia), [/FONT][FONT="]Slovakia, and Slovenia; all are separate from each other and not in a collection of states they were in OTL (Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia). Aside from the territorial changes [FONT="]describ[/FONT]ed in parentheses, all countries have the same borders as OTL present day (I set up these [FONT="]territorial changes [FONT="]in these ways [FONT="]to prevent [FONT="]ethni[FONT="]c [/FONT][/FONT]disputes in OTL[FONT="]). [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]How much of a difference [FONT="]in history would t[FONT="]his have made?[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia never exist
- Thread starter 297*
- Start date
Not really possible. Slovenia and Croatia can happen, but OTL both of them were reluctantly willing to give the Yugoslav idea a go because of how threatened they felt by their neighbours (and considering butt hurt Italians and revengist Hungarians etc. they'd been in very real danger alone), and thought perhaps Serbia would treat them as equals (they were wrong). Also, since Serbia had been an ally you can't take her lands, and you usually feel strengthening an ally is a good idea. And the Macedonians identified themselves as Bulgarian at this time and would probably just have joined Bulgaria. Macedonian identity was not yet strong enough to be considered a national identity.
The Slovakian identity had not yet fully awakened. Most Slovak nationalists at the time considered union with the Czechs a somewhat positive thing, since the Czechs were closely related, and it meant the end of Hungarian dominance. However the Slovakian national identity would really awaken in the 20s and 30s.
The Slovakian identity had not yet fully awakened. Most Slovak nationalists at the time considered union with the Czechs a somewhat positive thing, since the Czechs were closely related, and it meant the end of Hungarian dominance. However the Slovakian national identity would really awaken in the 20s and 30s.
Basically Yugoslavia lasted as long as it did by being (a bit like Austria-Hungary before it) a lesser evil than the alternatives then on offer.
In 1918 it was a lesser evil to being carved up between Italy and Hungary, a generation later it was a lesser evil to being ruled by the Third Reich, and a generation later still it was a lesser evil to being ruled by Soviet Russia.
Post-1989 it was no longer the lesser evil to anything in particular, and so it quickly dissolved.
In 1918 it was a lesser evil to being carved up between Italy and Hungary, a generation later it was a lesser evil to being ruled by the Third Reich, and a generation later still it was a lesser evil to being ruled by Soviet Russia.
Post-1989 it was no longer the lesser evil to anything in particular, and so it quickly dissolved.
That's very unlikely; at this point in time, Czechs and Slovaks were both mostly happy with the idea of a single state for both of them. Meanwhile, Serbia has its war aims.
The Sanjak was split evenly between Serbs and Muslims and won't be going anywhere, at least not as a whole. And there are quite a few Croats in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
But in general: aligning borders according to people's self-determination may be a good idea, but it's not going to happen in 1918.
The closest plausible outcome, I think, is an independent Croatia and Slovenia after WWI, with roughly their modern day borders.
In that case, all three states (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia) would be more politically stable than OTL's Kingdom of Yugoslavia, but they would also be more susceptible to outside interference, especially the latter two.
The Sanjak was split evenly between Serbs and Muslims and won't be going anywhere, at least not as a whole. And there are quite a few Croats in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
But in general: aligning borders according to people's self-determination may be a good idea, but it's not going to happen in 1918.
The closest plausible outcome, I think, is an independent Croatia and Slovenia after WWI, with roughly their modern day borders.
In that case, all three states (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia) would be more politically stable than OTL's Kingdom of Yugoslavia, but they would also be more susceptible to outside interference, especially the latter two.
Agreed with all the previous posts.
Plus, I'll add this:
If Czechoslovakia would not have been created, Wilson and other diplomats at the Versailles Conference would not have allowed the creation of an independent Slovakia and Czechia. For the simple reason that they were not nationally and economically that viable back in the day. The Czechs needed the Slovak population to counter the high numbers of their Czech German minority, while Slovakia needed the Czech land and Czechs to act as country-developing support for at least a decade. This is because Slovakia couldn't entirely survive and especially not develop on its own after the collapse of Austria-Hungary and its traditional ties and infrastructure.
So, either you have a Czechoslovakia, even if it's a bit ATLish, or the territory of the Czech lands falls to Austria or Germany and Slovakia just stays with Hungary.
Plus, I'll add this:
If Czechoslovakia would not have been created, Wilson and other diplomats at the Versailles Conference would not have allowed the creation of an independent Slovakia and Czechia. For the simple reason that they were not nationally and economically that viable back in the day. The Czechs needed the Slovak population to counter the high numbers of their Czech German minority, while Slovakia needed the Czech land and Czechs to act as country-developing support for at least a decade. This is because Slovakia couldn't entirely survive and especially not develop on its own after the collapse of Austria-Hungary and its traditional ties and infrastructure.
So, either you have a Czechoslovakia, even if it's a bit ATLish, or the territory of the Czech lands falls to Austria or Germany and Slovakia just stays with Hungary.