Culture in a Nazi Victory World.

OK, let say that a few things that went wrong for the Nazis went right, and they now dominate Europe. How would culture, philosophy and the like develop in such a world where fascism is dominant?
 
In the fascist sphere the result of Nazi education policies would have been a dramatic impoverishment of European culture, with much looting and theft of cultural artifacts from other nations, the destruction and razing of Leningrad and Moscow, the replacing of the latter by a lake, and the establishment of at least three gruesome rivals among the Nazi apparatus and the Wehrmacht as a fourth center of power. In an economic sphere the Nazi empire would have been a self-destructive, contradictory disaster with the eradication of Slavs and the reduction of any survivors to an illiterate serf mass leaving the Nazi economic machine dependent on disastrous Nazi agrarian policies in the East and with a worker supply of a sort that historically and economically is always extremely unproductive. The regime would be so brutalized by carrying out Generalplan Ost that any resistance at home will be reacted to just as with its imposition in the East, and the Nazi Empire will be one giant, whitewashed tomb.

In the rest of the world de-colonization will proceed as per OTL, but with US influence far stronger and Nazi ability to impact most colonies sharply limited. The USA will due to this reality tilt somewhat more leftward socially but remain just as rightward economically as per OTL. The USA will sharply orient itself *against* militarism and genocide, Japan as per OTL will be a pro-US democracy.
 
the us will tilt farther to the left, there will be at least one facist scare, and the labor movement will be slightly stronger.
 
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Paintings would probably be all of the same sort, something similar to N.Korea's socialist realism that portraits only the Dear Leader, the party, state success etc. Toss in the race superiority factor and you got yourself something.
 

Nikkolas

Banned
All music, propaganda or not, will have the same boring marching rhythm.

But there will be Wagnr everywhere and that's a god thing in my book.

I think the "Nazi economy will implode" idea is a bit ridiculous. Hitlr might have hd the Devil's luck in surviving assassination attempts but he will die of old age or disease. At this point I foresee a Soviet-style reshuffling of ideologies to make things more practical.

Speaking of dead Hitler though, I can see a religion forming around him. He will be the Messiah for most people in the Nazi Empire. Mein Kampf will be a new Bible and Nazi philosophy will all be centered around "Aryan history".
 
But there will be Wagnr everywhere and that's a god thing in my book.

I think the "Nazi economy will implode" idea is a bit ridiculous. Hitlr might have hd the Devil's luck in surviving assassination attempts but he will die of old age or disease. At this point I foresee a Soviet-style reshuffling of ideologies to make things more practical.

Speaking of dead Hitler though, I can see a religion forming around him. He will be the Messiah for most people in the Nazi Empire. Mein Kampf will be a new Bible and Nazi philosophy will all be centered around "Aryan history".

That can't be done. The death of 30 million people and attempts to build a completely unfeasible super-agarian empire can't be reshuffled. And it might also be worth remembering that some of the most boneheaded Soviet policies were done by Khrushchev, not Stalin or Brezhnev.
 
1. A large portion of the world outside of the Axis will likely lean towards liberalism and socialism.

2. Germany will attempt to create a purely Aryan culture, that includes Wagner music and a North Korean level of Dear Leader worship.

3. The only hints of anything German in the US are things the Nazis specifically hate, like Einstein and Marx.

4. The US will be in a Cold War with the Axis, most likely the equivalent of an Iron Curtain.

5. Without Britain, Canada will increasingly turn to the US, eventually requesting annexation. The rest of the former British Empire will see the US as their strongest ally, although they will remain independent nations.
 

amphibulous

Banned
All music, propaganda or not, will have the same boring marching rhythm.

Actually, the leader of the famous "Charlie's" Swing Band -

http://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Swing-Goebbels-Jazz-Orchestra/dp/B0009T2JKG

In the twisted annals of the Third Reich, few stories are so improbable as that of Charlie and his Orchestra. Even as the Nazis campaigned against degenerate jazz music, persecuting musicians and throwing swing kids into concentration camps, behind the scenes Joseph Goebbels and his Propaganda Ministry were creating a jazz orchestra that would serve up Nazi propaganda backed by the latest swing music.

The result was Charlie and his Orchestra , Karl Schwedler, made up of Europe's finest jazz players, whose short-wave broadcasts to English and American audiences soon gained a following abroad and, more clandestinely, within the Reich itself.
Combining hit-parade savvy with pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic lyrics, the orchestra specialized in cover versions of the latest swing sensations; among the recordings featured here are the Churchill-baiting You're Driving Me Crazy , the anti-Roosevelt FDR Jones, and Slumming on Park Avenue (Let's go bombing... ).

As soon as the war ended, orchestra members found themselves in hot demand by American occupation forces, and many become respected leaders of Europe's postwar jazz scene.

In this film, surviving band members (including the late Fritz Freddie Brocksieper) recall their musical collaboration with the Nazi regime with ambivalence and insight, shedding new light onto the contradictory workings of Goebbels propaganda machine.
1989, B&W/Color, 60 minutes, English commentary.

...Rated Goebbels highly as a composer/arranger - he was in the habit of rewriting their numbers for them. So he wasn't just a talented liar...
 
5. Without Britain, Canada will increasingly turn to the US, eventually requesting annexation. The rest of the former British Empire will see the US as their strongest ally, although they will remain independent nations.

Not so sure about this. The Monarchy will probably have fled to Canada, and Canada's nationalism will likely be much stronger.
 
Not so sure about this. The Monarchy will probably have fled to Canada, and Canada's nationalism will likely be much stronger.

True. I didn't think of that one. But I still think they would have had a very strong alliance with the US, simply because it is more powerful.
 
True. I didn't think of that one. But I still think they would have had a very strong alliance with the US, simply because it is more powerful.
I think the US would be about as strong as OTL, while Canada would be stronger. We would probably get the British territories in the New World and the French ones.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
5. Without Britain, Canada will increasingly turn to the US, eventually requesting annexation. The rest of the former British Empire will see the US as their strongest ally, although they will remain independent nations.


I see something more like a NATO, Commonwealth, and WTO organization. With most of all of Europe in European hands and England occupied, the USA probably could just join the commonwealth and be de facto leader, it probably has a different name and is technically a successor organization. The commonwealth, the USA, Dutch Colonies under USA protection would join the new "United Nations".

I doubt the USA would actually annex any of the British Empire. The USA could have annexed things after WW2, and we choose not to, so we are likely to do the same pattern. The closest thing I could see to annexing Canada would be the Marshall Island treatment, where Canadians automatically can work and live in the USA. Combine this with the Canadian military in a Unified command with an American General in charge.
 

Nikkolas

Banned
On philosophy once again, Nietzsche probably becomes some sort o Honorary Father of Nazism.

And maybe Heidegger stays just as well-known as in OTL?
 
I see something more like a NATO, Commonwealth, and WTO organization. With most of all of Europe in European hands and England occupied, the USA probably could just join the commonwealth and be de facto leader, it probably has a different name and is technically a successor organization. The commonwealth, the USA, Dutch Colonies under USA protection would join the new "United Nations".

I doubt the USA would actually annex any of the British Empire. The USA could have annexed things after WW2, and we choose not to, so we are likely to do the same pattern. The closest thing I could see to annexing Canada would be the Marshall Island treatment, where Canadians automatically can work and live in the USA. Combine this with the Canadian military in a Unified command with an American General in charge.

Now that I think about it, that probably would be more likely.
 
I don't think Britain has to be in a victory t.l.. the way I see it the Us and Britain would organize an armistice after the defeat of the USSR.
 
I don't think Britain has to be in a victory t.l.. the way I see it the Us and Britain would organize an armistice after the defeat of the USSR.
Either alone would develop the ability to destroy the Nazis by the end of the 40's even with USSR out of it, thus you need to take Britain off the table and make sure the US never comes into play, an early armistice is possible but once the USSR enters play Britain will hold until it loses, and once the US enters play Britain will hold until the Nazis are broken
 
That's the big question of Nazi Victory TLs: Would the US move to the Left (because of a Nazi Scare, and as a counterweight), or to the Right (because they'd think Nazism is successful and should be imitated)? In [thread=35802]this thread[/thread] we discussed a lot about it, but found no conclusion.

Maybe even both would happen, and US politics become VERY polarized?
 
John Mighty said:
5. Without Britain, Canada will increasingly turn to the US, eventually requesting annexation. The rest of the former British Empire will see the US as their strongest ally, although they will remain independent nations.
What is it with Americans & annexation of Canada?:confused::confused: We'd just begun to find our feet as a nation. Why would we give it up?:confused::confused: Why would we need to?:confused:
Beedok said:
Not so sure about this. The Monarchy will probably have fled to Canada, and Canada's nationalism will likely be much stronger.
Possible, but dubious. If Winston & HMG flee, it'd be to Bermuda, probably, maybe Newfoundland (not yet part of Canada, recall), not Canada, so The Royals'd probaby be there, too. They'd be welcome here indefinitely (HMG, no...), but I doubt the actual stay'd be long. Why not HMG? Same reason as above. Add in friction with Quebec...

Thinking of that, it might lead to a much earlier, Nazi-sponsored FLQ.:eek:
Beedok said:
We would probably get the British territories in the New World and the French ones.
I don't see why. HMG doen't just evaporate.:rolleyes: And if anybody's going to get ex-French territories (besides Free France:rolleyes:), it's going to be the U.S. (TTL, a vote by Turks & Caicos to join Canada is likely to be accepted. Newfoundland's also likely to join sooner.)
BlondieBC said:
The closest thing I could see to annexing Canada would be the Marshall Island treatment, where Canadians automatically can work and live in the USA. Combine this with the Canadian military in a Unified command with an American General in charge.
Not a combined command, but a Combined Chiefs of Staff that actually has Canadians on it.:rolleyes:

The "North American passport" idea I like, & it reminds me of Winston's "joint U.S.-British citizenship" thing, but IDK how credible it is. It's not like it's ever been really hard for Canadians to live & work in the U.S....

As for culture, I'd anticipate fairly strong interest in science fiction, especially space opera glorifying the Master Race. Imagine "Star Wars" where Vader is the hero.:eek: Or imagine Lord of the Swastika being real, & a bestseller.:eek::eek::eek::eek: Rock & roll would be contraband in Germany & Occupied Europe.(Might conceivably be more popular outside Europe, as a propaganda tool...)

I can imagine the U.S. being much more like Sweden or France: more government-owned companies, Canadian-style Medicare. Acceptance of radical reactionary Republicans would be much lower...
Max Sinister said:
That's the big question of Nazi Victory TLs: Would the US move to the Left (because of a Nazi Scare, and as a counterweight), or to the Right (because they'd think Nazism is successful and should be imitated)? In [thread=35802]this thread[/thread] we discussed a lot about it, but found no conclusion.

Maybe even both would happen, and US politics become VERY polarized?
I find that both very credible & very disturbing.:eek::eek:
 
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