Cuisine of the Confederate States of America

This is seems like a minor idea, but I’m curious about.

In a POD where the Confederate States of America won independence around 1862, with international recognition from Britain and France, and war-wariness from Copperheads and Civilians of the North.

So after independence of the CSA, what would Southern Confederate cuisine evolve too? OTL and present day Southern USA is famous for their food. However with a independent CSA, and effects of European immigration to the Americas, could CSA cooking be a continuation Antebellum cooking?

What about the things that Slaves cooked? Like Fries Chicken (please don’t be offended, it’s historical)

If an influx of European immigrants come to the CSA, how would that effect Southern cooking?

How would CSA cooking be seen internationally? Would it become famous like OTL South, or always associated with a nation trying to maintain slavery (keyword, trying)?

What about Southern regional cuisines in a CSA, like Cajun?

What about famous products that were made by Southerns OTL? Like Coke or Pepsi?

What type of methods would the CSA use, and what dishes, drinks and deserts come out of a independent CSA? Breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Or would CSA cuisine just resemble a OTL Southern Cuisine?
 
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Food is a very important part of life, and culture. We all love to eat, and food brings us together with friends, and family. Up until the era of chain restaurants, and fast food, I don't think it would be much different then the OTL. The CSA wouldn't have many immigrants, and the Cajuns were already there. Mexican food came in through Texas, but that happened anyway. The Confederate upper classes did admire French Culture, so maybe more French Food would come in.
 
Considering that overseas trade was absolutely crucial to any (however unlikely) survival of an independent CSA, would it be possible to have more culinary influences from, say, the Spanish colonies remaining in North America, or from Brazil? The longer the CSA survived and retained the "peculiar institution", the more persona non grata it would become... I'd imagine culinary influences would filter in from those nations still willing to conduct trade with them...
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Confederates attempt to seriously downplay the culinary achievements of the black population living there, even though Southern cuisine might end up being similar OTL. Take fried chicken for example, Confederate officials would tell you it's more of a Scottish invention or one that comes from Europe rather than admit that it was influenced by West African methods of cooking. Barbeque and other Southern staples could easily fall into similar methods of cultural erasure as well.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Confederates attempt to seriously downplay the culinary achievements of the black population living there, even though Southern cuisine might end up being similar OTL. Take fried chicken for example, Confederate officials would tell you it's more of a Scottish invention or one that comes from Europe rather than admit that it was influenced by West African methods of cooking. Barbeque and other Southern staples could easily fall into similar methods of cultural erasure as well.
Was the fried chicken stereotype a thing back then?
 
Was the fried chicken stereotype a thing back then?
I don’t know about the stereotype, but fried chicken as we would see it was a very common food among slaves because it was cheap, tasted good, and provided a lot of calories. Same as bbq (which developed as a way to get good flavor out of...well shitty cuts of meat.) For the same reasons I can see it still spreading in popularity across the South.
 
Was the fried chicken stereotype a thing back then?
There's a NPR article that I found that discusses this stereotype:

But honestly, this kind of thing would be very much expected for the Confederates, especially if their cuisine is considered to be "more refined" than their formerly enslaved peers.
 
In the early 1990’s, some coworkers decided to take this Georgia white boy to a soul food joint for a cultural education.
That’s when I found out I had been eating soul food my whole life. Wasn’t a thing on the menu that my grandmother hadn’t served me since I was a toddler.
 
One thing to consider is the likelihood of some kind of East/South Asian influence. After the abolition of slavery, some Southern plantation owners sought to bring in laborers from China to replace their former slaves. Legislative efforts to block further Asian immigration, pushed largely by Western politicians, nipped this in the bud. In an independent CSA, when slavery eventually ends, this Western pressure would be absent, allowing the Confederates to import Chinese or Indian indentured servants just like many Caribbean islands did. The culinary influences these servants bring could easily become seen not just as an "ethnic" specialty, but as typically Confederate food, just as goat curry has become a quintessentially Jamaican dish OTL.

Considering that overseas trade was absolutely crucial to any (however unlikely) survival of an independent CSA, would it be possible to have more culinary influences from, say, the Spanish colonies remaining in North America, or from Brazil? The longer the CSA survived and retained the "peculiar institution", the more persona non grata it would become... I'd imagine culinary influences would filter in from those nations still willing to conduct trade with them...

Good point. I wonder whether the reverse is also true. Are there any food items that would be likely to become scarce due to economic embargoes? Maybe something produced in the Northern states but not the Southern ones?
 

JWQ

Banned
One thing to consider is the likelihood of some kind of East/South Asian influence. After the abolition of slavery, some Southern plantation owners sought to bring in laborers from China to replace their former slaves. Legislative efforts to block further Asian immigration, pushed largely by Western politicians, nipped this in the bud. In an independent CSA, when slavery eventually ends, this Western pressure would be absent, allowing the Confederates to import Chinese or Indian indentured servants just like many Caribbean islands did. The culinary influences these servants bring could easily become seen not just as an "ethnic" specialty, but as typically Confederate food, just as goat curry has become a quintessentially Jamaican dish OTL.



Good point. I wonder whether the reverse is also true. Are there any food items that would be likely to become scarce due to economic embargoes? Maybe something produced in the Northern states but not the Southern ones?
Your absolutely right! The south would not have as many immigrants,but they would be eager to cajole to immigrants. Heck they could have immigrants from Asia to help the slaves . The south is desperate for cheap labor to replace the emancipation slaves or even for New Orleans continuation as a prosperous city
 

JWQ

Banned
A lot of the good fast food and chained sit down restaurants originated in the south

Hardees, Popeyes ,chicken,Chick-fil-A, Cook out, Kentucky fried chicken, what a burger,carrcker Barrel,Applebee’s,Chili's
Kentucky fried chicken ,Bojangles,Zaby , bisketville,sonic,sunnys, bandannas, Krispy Kreme,

Restaurants that are not purely southern but first we’re established in the south are Olive Garden, Long John Silvers outback Burger king, Taco Bell kinda.


Macdonald really is cheap American food If not universal cheap food

A lot of the Northern restaurants aren’t that fabulously good
 
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JWQ

Banned
It's Possible with the south having their economy preserved, Including new Orleans's economic prosperity not ending by the south losing the civil war. The CSA government would be all too eager at encouraging immigrants to come to the CSA, particularly new Orleans. At the Elis island immigration museum, I saw a poster advertising immigration to New Orleans. It said the jobs are plentiful out on the docks. Well, let's pretend New Orleans prosperity didn't go away. In fact it kept retaining positive economic growth through Free trade, Trade along the Mississippi River, New economic investment money from Europe for industry and other investment, and Cotton still on the throne of New Orleans economic importance could continue you to grow and develop.

well, if jobs are actually plentiful and the economy is truly in wonderful shape, you would see significantly more immigrants going to New Orleans and the South in general.

You would see much more Italian food with more Italian immigrants in New Orleans (Cajun pasta in reality ). You would have seen immigrants melting down in new Orleans from Ireland, Poland, french Mexico, Spain, western and eastern Europe. New Orleans would receive many Asian immigrants likely from China, because of a railway from southern California connected to new Orleans the crown Jewel Of the Confederacy.

[from Wikipedia }
Here are my nation-states cuisine factbooks https://www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1037756



https://www.nationstates.net/nation=confederate_farmers/detail=factbook/id=1044006

 
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JWQ

Banned
The confederates would have likely added tea time to the meal plan adopted from the British culture that the southern admired and traded with the British. Scones, tea biscuits (cookies), British Caribbean food, mutton are all cusine items that the CSA would influence British cuisine.

However, confederate tea time would be different than English tea time as one could imagine cornbread, biscuits, popovers, the southerners could expand bread to the menu, and instead of warm tea cold sweet tea, lemonade could be served on a hot summer day working at the fields or simply this occasion be an excuse to socialize With your neighbors.

Mutton might be reproduced back on the national dish because it's a very traditional European. My meaning is very European. One example, a traditional Boer south African dish served for breakfast is lamb steak and let's not forget good Scottish ole haggis. The south would likely have a higher Jewish population and this could be used as an alternative to pork to keep the kosher section happy
 
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JWQ

Banned
Considering that overseas trade was absolutely crucial to any (however unlikely) survival of an independent CSA, would it be possible to have more culinary influences from, say, the Spanish colonies remaining in North America, or from Brazil? The longer the CSA survived and retained the "peculiar institution", the more persona non grata it would become... I'd imagine culinary influences would filter in from those nations still willing to conduct trade with them...
Queen Isabel of Spain, the second, tried to revive the glory days of the Spanish empire, and Spain had a complicated relationship with the confederates because they knew that the confederates had a profound lust for Cuba. However, the united states government that had bad relationships with Spain and intervention would weaken America, and perhaps the CSA would agree for Cuba not to be invaded at least a temporary agreement of 10 years. Game Awesome 😎 already made a perfect pod https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/csa-relations-with-latin-america.498083/

Back to cuisine, the Confederates would be influenced from the Caribbean dishes, Latina America for, if nothing else, trade, but keep in mind even if the golden circle ambitions were not met with success, it could still influence the new republics menu. Some of the Caribbean's drinks, such as mauby are consumed as a regional drink in Florida. Special sodas can still be found in places such as cracker barrels or folksy stores, which special flavor sodas are sometimes produced in the south (including southern California )or the border states such as fizzes soda operating in Saint Louis
 
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What about famous products that were made by Southerns OTL? Like Coke or Pepsi?
Pepsi would probably be butterflied away IMO, but Coke would likely still exist, albeit as something that mostly exists just in the CSA as a result of being a pariah state. The soft drink of choice for the North would then be Moxie, which was a fierce competitor with Coke in the early 1900's of OTL. Moxie might then become an international brand, albeit I imagine export drinks might have their flavor adjusted for taste, Moxie is a very unique tasting soda.
Good point. I wonder whether the reverse is also true. Are there any food items that would be likely to become scarce due to economic embargoes? Maybe something produced in the Northern states but not the Southern ones?
Like in OTL there'd be the great pie divide, pumpkins are generally considered a Northern thing thus to this day a lot of Southerners prefer to have sweet potato pie on Thanksgiving to contrast the traditional Yankee pumpkin pie.
 
Pepsi would probably be butterflied away IMO, but Coke would likely still exist, albeit as something that mostly exists just in the CSA as a result of being a pariah state. The soft drink of choice for the North would then be Moxie, which was a fierce competitor with Coke in the early 1900's of OTL. Moxie might then become an international brand, albeit I imagine export drinks might have their flavor adjusted for taste, Moxie is a very unique tasting soda.

Like in OTL there'd be the great pie divide, pumpkins are generally considered a Northern thing thus to this day a lot of Southerners prefer to have sweet potato pie on Thanksgiving to contrast the traditional Yankee pumpkin pie.

Is their any chance of Cream soda being the drink of choice and going international? I mean it tastes better than Coke and Moxie with the latter being almost undrinkable.
 
Pepsi would probably be butterflied away IMO, but Coke would likely still exist, albeit as something that mostly exists just in the CSA as a result of being a pariah state. The soft drink of choice for the North would then be Moxie, which was a fierce competitor with Coke in the early 1900's of OTL. Moxie might then become an international brand, albeit I imagine export drinks might have their flavor adjusted for taste, Moxie is a very unique tasting soda.

Like in OTL there'd be the great pie divide, pumpkins are generally considered a Northern thing thus to this day a lot of Southerners prefer to have sweet potato pie on Thanksgiving to contrast the traditional Yankee pumpkin pie.
Not sure why Pepsi would be butterflied away though, as the inventor was born in and ran a pharmacy in coastal NC...
Possibly regional varieties of soft drinks, like Blenheim in SC and Big Red in TX would be more popular...
 
This would butterfly away David Fairchild's trips around the globe. Which introduced many new fruits like citrus to the American diet. So American cuisine will be a lot more savory and would resemble English cuisine. Assuming some other botanist or some capitalist's do not replace him.
 

JWQ

Banned
Peanut butter would remain in popular consumption in the confederate nation as Confederate people, including slaves and freedmen, would even view it as patriotic eating the substance. For peanut butter is cheap, high in calories, and healthy to eat,which in exchange the peanuts improve the soil from wearing out.

Unless Booker t Washington and George Washington carver talents become butterflied.(which no wish to derail the topic)
 
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