Cuba as a US state

[NothingNow]

By the way, no sources as to the claim that Cubans wanted statehood?

I can safely say you'll never be able to find a credible one claiming such.

Cuba by this point had a very well developed national identity, and a diaspora lobbying for it in major cities across the US, and everyone agreed on one thing above all else, Cuba needed to be free and independent. Statehood was thus categorically unacceptable.

 

[Tallest Skil]

IF Cuba follows a similar model and you dd on 60 years to 1898 and you get 1958.

I see nothing wrong with that.

By the way, no sources as to the claim that Cubans wanted statehood?

I do, but it's a book.

I can safely say you'll never be able to find a credible one claiming such.

Of course not¡

 

[eliphas8]

I see nothing wrong with that.



I do, but it's a book.

Well then cite it. In the very least then we would know it exists. And you are completely ignoring the very valid reasons why treating it like Arizona and New Mexico wouldn't work.

 

[NothingNow]

I do, but it's a book.

Okay then. Give us the title or the ISBN, and a page number.

Of course not¡

You're arguing with the guy who fucking eats, sleeps and breathes Cuban history as far as this board is concerned.
If I say there isn't a credible source claiming such, there isn't a credible source.

 

[Tohno]

The US was over bigotry against black and brown Spanish-speaking Catholics in 1898?

Cuba was largely white, and I don't think there was much bigotry against Spanish speakers. At least not the white ones - they were legallc considered 'white'.

Still really bad at this time though, they have not progressed enough to allow a majority catholic brown state.

IT's a white state

Cuba would have been given the Hawaii or Alaska treatment.

Import a bunch of white people to culturally assimilate it. Add in US bases and alot of naval personnel. Make its economy part of the US. Shake well for several decades.

You'll have to at the least move the cubans into the mainland USA for some mixing. ie. new orleans, atlanta, new york city, etc.

See but the scale here is nowhere near the same, you only need to import a few thousand whites into Hawaii and Alaska to completely change the demographics, Cuba on the other hand though already has hundreds of thousands of people living there and it would take a lot more than just flooding them with white people (who will probably die of tropical illnesses in large numbers).

How did Cuban whites not die of tropical illnesses? Or hell, American Whites in Hawaii?

 

[Chris S]

I do, but it's a book.

Well what's the title of the book at least?

 

[NothingNow]

How did Cuban whites not die of tropical illnesses? Or hell, American Whites in Hawaii?

Well, they were already seasoned, and most grew up there to begin with, so they had an immunity to yellow fever et al.

Hawaii OTOH wasn't infested with tropical diseases.

 

[eliphas8]

IT's a white state



How did Cuban whites not die of tropical illnesses? Or hell, American Whites in Hawaii?

Its not white according to the one drop rule.

Actually Cuban whites did die of tropical diseases in huge numbers at the beginning, it just so happens that in the time since then they had become more used to diseases the Americans would have next to no immunity to. And Hawaii doesn't have nearly as many tropical diseases as Cuba.

 

[Texian]

What if for some reason the Mexican-American War doesn't happen and the American southwest is not open to United States territorial expansion? If the US expanded into the Gulf, Caribbean or Latin America during the 1840-50's and not the Southwest, would it be plausible that the territories that were gained there (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua etc.) become states at approximately the same time as New Mexico, and Arizona in the OTL?

Could the US Take on Spain in the 1850's?

 

[Tohno]

Its not white according to the one drop rule.

Pre-Cuban Revolution was apparently pretty racist & the cuban whites had some weird social segregation with the cuban blacks. I thought there were a lot more 'dark black people' as opposed to mullattoes.

Actually Cuban whites did die of tropical diseases in huge numbers at the beginning, it just so happens that in the time since then they had become more used to diseases the Americans would have next to no immunity to. And Hawaii doesn't have nearly as many tropical diseases as Cuba.

Ahh. ok.

Well, they were already seasoned, and most grew up there to begin with, so they had an immunity to yellow fever et al.

Hawaii OTOH wasn't infested with tropical diseases.

Ok. So we'd need until I guess 1940s-50s for that place to be 'opened up' (i.e. peniccilin and other shots for immunity)

 

[eliphas8]

What if for some reason the Mexican-American War doesn't happen and the American southwest is not open to United States territorial expansion? If the US expanded into the Gulf, Caribbean or Latin America during the 1840-50's and not the Southwest, would it be plausible that the territories that were gained there (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua etc.) become states at approximately the same time as New Mexico, and Arizona in the OTL?

Could the US Take on Spain in the 1850's?

1. Why Nicaraugua? They where independent by then.
2. How do they exapnd into the gulf? We barely won in the OTL Spanish Ameircan war, this is going to be far earlier on with the Spanish being less behind the US militarily and the US still at most a secondary power.
3. And no those regions could not plausibly be anglicized in that time.

 

[Iori]

It is larger,

Cuba is territorialy larger than Puerto Rico, yes, however the population sizes were'n that different; in 1899 Cuba had a population of 1.5 million* while Puerto Rico had a population of 953,243.


*Cuba's population growth history has been very uneven; in 1817 it had a population of 572,363 by 1841 it had a population of 1 million, it surpassed 2 million in 1908, reached 3 million sometime in the 1920's, had 5.5 million by 1950, 9.7 million by 1980 and presently has 11.1 million.

 

[eliphas8]

Pre-Cuban Revolution was apparently pretty racist & the cuban whites had some weird social segregation with the cuban blacks. I thought there were a lot more 'dark black people' as opposed to mullattoes.

Pure Cuban Whites where an extreme minority compared to those with at-least some black or native ancestry. Mixed race ancestry is the majority across most of the Hispanic world.

 

[Iori]

Mixed race ancestry is the majority across most of the Hispanic world.

I'd say more like 60% of it, afterall Uruguay is one of Whitest countries in the America's and Argentina had the same massive immigration by Europeans that America did leading to not only the indigenous people, but Mestizos and Whites with native ancestry to become minorities; Chile is similar, though has a large mixed minority.

 

[eliphas8]

I'd say more like 60% of it, afterall Uruguay is one of Whitest countries in the America's and Argentina had the same massive immigration by Europeans that America did leading to not only the indigenous people, but Mestizos and Whites with native ancestry to become minorities; Chile is similar, though has a large mixed minority.

60% is still a majority.

 

[Texian]

1. Why Nicaraugua? They where independent by then.
2. How do they exapnd into the gulf? We barely won in the OTL Spanish Ameircan war, this is going to be far earlier on with the Spanish being less behind the US militarily and the US still at most a secondary power.
3. And no those regions could not plausibly be anglicized in that time.

1. William Walker took over Nicaragua in the late 1840's and wanted to fall into the US Orbit. It's just another place we had the us had their eye on because of the "Nicaragua Canal".
2. Spain is across the Atlantic and therefore has extremely long supply lines. Presumably, Cuban rebels would be on our side. Other than that I have no idea how to win the war logistically. But I'm sure some one does.
3. The wouldn't need to be Anglicized, the goal is to take them over as a stop gap measure to Pacify the south's thirst for new slave territory. This was Franklin Pierce's Plan. However if they do need to be anglicized, 1910's would certainly be enough time, if it is ever going to happen.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I'd say more like 60% of it, afterall Uruguay is one of Whitest countries in the America's and Argentina had the same massive immigration by Europeans that America did leading to not only the indigenous people, but Mestizos and Whites with native ancestry to become minorities; Chile is similar, though has a large mixed minority.

I may be wrong but a university in Buenos Aires did a test and the results came showing the majority of Argentines (56%) do have at least one Amerindian ancestor.

 

[Iori]

I may be wrong but a university in Buenos Aires did a test and the results came showing the majority of Argentines (56%) do have at least one Amerindian ancestor.

The majority of Americans most likely have some non-European ancestry far back to, but having say a Mapuche Great, Great Grandpa and the rest of your acnestors being European does not make one Mixed.

Incidentally present estimates have 8% of the population as Mestizo.

 

[DominusNovus]

2. How do they exapnd into the gulf? We barely won in the OTL Spanish American war, this is going to be far earlier on with the Spanish being less behind the US militarily and the US still at most a secondary power.

While the Spanish-American war is not my particular area of expertise, I've always thought it was a fairly decisive war. That the war only lasted 3 months -with a treaty significantly in favor of the US- seems to support my layman's interpretation.

 

[Blackfox5]

Out of the politically active population, there would be some who wanted to become a US state, some who want independence, and the rest who wmay have a preference but be willing to accept either provided they received other concessions.

There will definitely be hardliners unwilling to accept Cuba as part of the United States, and some kind of insurrection is inevitable. Provided the United States has the political will to accept casualties until the insurrection is crushed, and provided the United States and Cuban collaborators are politically savvy enough to structure a deal that causes most of the independent supporters to accept statehood, then it's possible for Cuba to become a state (or states).

I think it's a very strong challenge to accomplish all of that, but it is theoretically possible.

In the long term, improved public health will allow lots of white Americans to immigrate to Cuba, changing the racial mix. Yellow fever is certainly bad, but it was during this time that Dr. Walter Reed and others discovered its transmission vector and was able to fight it. Since the US was able to build the Panama Canal soon after this time, it won't be long before white Americans could begin moving to Havana and elsewhere and have a good survival rate.