CTL: Cortesia
- Thread starter John Fredrick Parker
- Start date
Cool Sa'id! I'm looking forward to a Muslim power competing on equal terms with Christian powers in the New World. Usually in ATL's its one or the other. I await to see what develops with bated breath.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Not in this time-line. You'll see Christian and Islamic powers eventually having a equal share in the Americas while the natives end up on a better foot-note.
Expect huge things.
Okay, I've been rereading cartlon_bach's excellent Vivaldi Journeys, and mining it for ideas. Here are a few explored in his timeline or the threat:
* A knightly order colonizes large bits of the Americas via Teutonic-style methods, loosely controlled by an European crown.
The thing I don't get is that the Montesans (fictional knightly order) had Muslim jinetaros (riders) as part of their troops. Is that what Iberians really did?
* Having a fictional ideology come to prominence in Europe. You could experiment with having alt-schools of thought.
* Chocolate becomes the product that Europeans use to open up trade with China.
* Cannabis becomes a cash crop?
* Hanseatic League-type peasant republics survive in parts of northern Europe.
* Burgundy being a power (you're already doing this, huh?)
* The Mamluks... do stuff?
* A rising European power (in this case Milan, who has annexed Genoa and cultivated great trade in the Indian Ocean) supports the Safavids against the Ottomans. Shia end up emigrating to them during times of persecution.
* A lot of trade between Europe and west Africa leads to the conversion of the ruler of Benin, then Ife and Bakongo. The animist Mossi and the Muslims of Songhai complicate things. Though this all happens in the mid- to late-1400s.
* Brittany is involved in the Americas!
Could any of these be used in Cortesia?
* A knightly order colonizes large bits of the Americas via Teutonic-style methods, loosely controlled by an European crown.
The thing I don't get is that the Montesans (fictional knightly order) had Muslim jinetaros (riders) as part of their troops. Is that what Iberians really did?
* Having a fictional ideology come to prominence in Europe. You could experiment with having alt-schools of thought.
* Chocolate becomes the product that Europeans use to open up trade with China.
* Cannabis becomes a cash crop?
* Hanseatic League-type peasant republics survive in parts of northern Europe.
* Burgundy being a power (you're already doing this, huh?)
* The Mamluks... do stuff?
* A rising European power (in this case Milan, who has annexed Genoa and cultivated great trade in the Indian Ocean) supports the Safavids against the Ottomans. Shia end up emigrating to them during times of persecution.
* A lot of trade between Europe and west Africa leads to the conversion of the ruler of Benin, then Ife and Bakongo. The animist Mossi and the Muslims of Songhai complicate things. Though this all happens in the mid- to late-1400s.
* Brittany is involved in the Americas!
Could any of these be used in Cortesia?
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The plausibility of an independent Breton venture into the Americas is highly unlikely considering the Breton duke's already close relationship with the King of France. There has been almost forty years of personal union via intermarriage between the two peoples so unless something happens to rift the relationship to the point that the Bretons break off although it would leave them to be susceptible to military conquest and from experience in our time-line, that is not usually a good thing. Francis, king of France, already has married a Breton duchess and had a son with her who is going to end up inheriting the thrones of both kingdoms, thereby uniting them so something must happen to hinder that possibility and you can suggest some ideas for me. I can say that the Bretons will the core group of Francesca's and Biscayne's European population though you'll see them stick very far inland like the Scots and Scots-Irish.
In replacement of the Dutch, yes. Countless wars in Holland and Germany is what emptied Spain's coffers so the smart thing to do is go further than what Charles V did in our time-line, he has to either give it away to a junior branch of the Hapsburg dynasty.
-The Sultanate of Manila(OTL Luzon, Philippines) will be a Hermit Sultanate that closes trade to other countries but before it it will be isolationist it will influence taiwan's inhabitants and turn them into muslims..
-Joseon will be isolationist.
-Japan will be divided into two kyushu and okinawa go to Shimazu Clan and the rest of japan go to Tokugawa Clan..
-Joseon will be isolationist.
-Japan will be divided into two kyushu and okinawa go to Shimazu Clan and the rest of japan go to Tokugawa Clan..
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
All those ideas would make Asia a pretty interesting place. I'll just sneak in revived Mongol empire in northern China as a future topic.
I'll add another idea the city of Manila or Kota Seludong becomes a "Nagasaki"..
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In what sense? I'm sensing World War vibes.
Kagoshima as in the only city allowed to trade to outside world.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Depends if the Japanese will end up trading with the European powers or at least the ones they were accustomed to meeting. I already mentioned that the Dutch are not going to show up until fairly late in the time-line, perhaps within the last century. Their counterparts in this time-line will be the Burgundian Kingdom, ruled by a junior line of the ever so infamous Hapsburg dynasty. Spain is mostly concentrated in settler colonies in central and south America and the West Indies instead of trade with Asia. I can see Portugal benefiting from this by having more of a presence in Asia and since you suggested Japan be divided, it would be very interesting.
Now for the division of major European territories in North America that I have planned circa the year 1555, about thirty years after the first Hispano-Naua war.
The Kingdom of England
- The Confederation of the New England Colonies:
- The Province of Narragansett Bay and the Wampanoag Reservations
- The Dominion of Massachusetts
- The Colony of Westbrook
- The Paugusett Plantations
- The Pequot Mohegan Reservation
- The United Settlements of Cape Cod, Nantaticutand Noepe.
- The Cape Ann Plantations
- The Vice-royalty of Kanata
- The Colony of Avalon
- The Nanticosti Island Colony
- The Province of Prince Edmund Island
El Imperio Española::
- El Virreinato de las Indias Occidentales Españolas:
- La Gobernación de San Juan
- La Gobernación de Hispaniola
- La Gobernación de Jamaica
- La Gobernación de Isla Evangelista
- La Gobernación de las Bahamas
- El Virreinato de Nueva Granada:
- La Gobernación de Cundinamarca
- La Gobernación de Panamá
- La Gobernación de Nicaragua
- La Gobernación de Managua
- La Administración Militar de Los Mosquitos
- La Gobernación de Veraguas
- La Administración Militar de Popayan
- La Administración Militar de Maracaibo
- Næstformanden royalty i Nordamerika
- Provinsen Markland
- Provinsen Vinland
- Provinsen Helleland
- Provinsen Grønland
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John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Do want to say, I'm impressed as ever by the scope this is taking.
Also, a map would help.
Also, a map would help.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I'm still taking my break. I just want to get what I have planned down and I need someone to do a map. I'm poor in map making.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Oh, of course -- I was going to add something to the effect of "But I'm sure someone will offer one soon", but...
Anyway, sorry about that
Anyway, sorry about that
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Oh, of course -- I was going to add something to the effect of "But I'm sure someone will offer one soon", but...
Anyway, sorry about that
Sadly but no one has offered yet. At least I have the information done and from what I have planned, the English and French are going to be the nice ones compared to the Spanish and Burgundian when it comes to the treatments of the native American population but rest assured you will see more of the native languages survive past the conquest by the Europeans and even prosper in some cases.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The Night of Sadness
- an excerpt from Mateo Nanacacipactli 's The Histories of the Nahuatl People
"Only by sheer luck we managed to survive."
- quoted from an unknown Naua survivor of the Siege of Tenochtitlan
- an excerpt from Mateo Nanacacipactli 's The Histories of the Nahuatl People
"Only by sheer luck we managed to survive."
- quoted from an unknown Naua survivor of the Siege of Tenochtitlan
As 1524 drew in a close and the year 1525 began, the commander Diego Colon and his combined Spanish-Tlaxcalan army had taken control of the entire city of Tenochtitlan save for the Templo Mayor and the former residence of Montezuma II where resistance by the Naua soldiers and the local citizenry against the invaders was still strong. He had firmly established himself in a military encampment what were the ruins of the nearby altepetl of Tlatelolco, quickly razed to the ground during the beginning of the siege when its population refused to switch sides and betray their fellow Aztec brethen in Tenochtitlan. From his position, he was able to be witness to the entire battle and relayed commands to the officer corps which then shouted them to their troops who without hesitance followed them. It was a difficult battle for the Spaniards especially as their commander Geronimo de Aguilar had ushered the beginning of the modernization of the former Aztec military into a modern fighting force. The Naua soldiers, now riding on horses and making use of the European muskets once used against them many years before, were strong enough to hold off the enemy army from completely overwhelming them and capturing the city.
There was also massive resistance from the local population who did everything they could in their power to help expel the Spanish invaders. Many of them were members of the local peasantry and couldn't get anything more than mere knives though this didn't matter as they participated in ambushing the enemy army as they moved their way through the more often than not obstacles in the streets blocking them from advancing deeper into the capital. The Spanish were forced to resort to burning down houses or directing cannon artillery to demolish any building in general that they suspected to be keeping insurgents or professional Naua soldiers inside. It resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people and for the survivors, it perpetuated the Black Legend which even to the present day carries a negative connotation associated with Spain.
Colon's forces were in the brink of capturing the capital yet Diego issued the command to his officers to stop the advance and begin the withdrawal from the city. There are many reasons that claim to be what persuaded Colon to withdraw though most historians and scholars agree that it was most likely that he was given news by his Otomi messengers right before his soldiers were able to complete their takeover of the city that Hernan Cortes' army had recaptured Tlaxcala and installed a new more friendlier government under the administration of his trusted native ally Xicotencatl II the Younger and was now within a couple of hours to a day away from providing reinforcements, said to be near almost 100,000 men, to the besieged defenders. What can be confirmed that Diego Colon and his army left Tenochtitlan in smoldering ruins while heading to the south where popular resentment against Cortes and the Aztecs was fairly high and he could obtain more reinforcements from the local inhabitants. His first destination would be to the Yopitzinco Kingdom.
Another thing is that Manila,Aceh,Johor/Malacca would be allies, only Malacca/Johor, Aceh and China's ships will be allowed in manila..
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