CSA Politics through 1900

[Thucydides]

The thread is simple, for a TL that I am writing I need a list of Presidents and if possible cabinet members for the CSA. POD is Lee achieves his Cannae at Glendale in June of 1862. War ends in December 1862.

Conditions, James Longstreet is President in the 1880s, he is the last of the strong Confederate presidents, from the end of his term on we must have a series of very weak presidents eventually leading to the breakup of the CSA in the early 1900s.

And please no one suggest Lee as president, we could have him get nominated but he cannot be elected, that's practically ASB.

 

[DSS]

Why can't Lee win?

 

[TheSevenLeggedFallyDowner]

And please no one suggest Lee as president, we could have him get nominated but he cannot be elected, that's practically ASB.

Um . . . why not? I know it is kind of cliche, but I don't see how it is ASB. Did I miss some important historical fact somewhere? I mean, I know that Lee wasn't exactly too keen on slavery, but he was still pro-Confederate, and extremely popular in the South, and I'm sure he wouldn't object to being President.

As for who would succeed Davis, Judah Benjamin or Alexander Stephens would be good ideas. Although I'm not sure if Benjamin would work because he was born in the British West Indies and I assume the CSA had a similar requirement that Presidents be born in the country. Maybe some of the generals like Jackson, Bragg or one of the two Johnstons. Jackson had some behavioral peculiarities to overcome though.

 

[Thucydides]

Um . . . why not? I know it is kind of cliche, but I don't see how it is ASB. Did I miss some important historical fact somewhere? I mean, I know that Lee wasn't exactly too keen on slavery, but he was still pro-Confederate, and extremely popular in the South, and I'm sure he wouldn't object to being President.

As for who would succeed Davis, Judah Benjamin or Alexander Stephens would be good ideas. Although I'm not sure if Benjamin would work because he was born in the British West Indies and I assume the CSA had a similar requirement that Presidents be born in the country. Maybe some of the generals like Jackson, Bragg or one of the two Johnstons. Jackson had some behavioral peculiarities to overcome though.

This has been discussed several other times, Lee was ailing by the time of Gettysburg, he might be in better health if the war ended earlier but still, I never saw Lee as a political character. And the same for Jackson, I don't think that he would go into politics for the same reasons. Plus even if it is possible I want to stray away from cliches in this already heavily cliched matter.

 

[robertp6165]

Um . . . why not? I know it is kind of cliche, but I don't see how it is ASB. Did I miss some important historical fact somewhere? I mean, I know that Lee wasn't exactly too keen on slavery, but he was still pro-Confederate, and extremely popular in the South, and I'm sure he wouldn't object to being President.

And indeed, would have felt it was his duty to serve, if called upon. He very much felt he was walking in the shoes of Washington. He had strong familial connections to the Washington family, married Martha Washington's grand-daughter, and tried to pattern his life, so far as possible, after Washington. If nominated...a very real possibility (I can see Jeff Davis promoting his candidacy in 1868 to keep Alex Stephens from getting the Presidency)...there is no way he would not accept. And if he ran, there is not a man in the Confederacy who had a hope of defeating him.

As for who would succeed Davis, Judah Benjamin or Alexander Stephens would be good ideas. Although I'm not sure if Benjamin would work because he was born in the British West Indies and I assume the CSA had a similar requirement that Presidents be born in the country. Maybe some of the generals like Jackson, Bragg or one of the two Johnstons. Jackson had some behavioral peculiarities to overcome though.

Judah Benjamin's birthplace was irrelevant. He was a citizen of the Confederate States at the time of the adoption of the Confederate Constitution. This made him eligible to hold any political office in the land, including President. However, although the Confederacy was a bit more liberal about Jewish office-holders than most places at that time, it is unlikely he could have been elected President because he was Jewish.

Alex Stephens might have run, but would have been opposed by Jeff Davis and whatever candidate Jeff Davis supported.

Bragg would never have been electable as President. It is unlikely that Joe Johnston would have been interested in running. You might look at people like Wade Hampton, John B. Gordon, P.G.T. Beauregard, John C. Breckinridge, Jubal Early, etc. as possible office-holders.

 

[lothaw]

Well being the first President of the US was a successful general, why wouldn't the CS's second one be? Lee may very well accept out of a sense of duty.

I'd say someone like John Breckinridge is more likely to succed Davis though.

 

[Thucydides]

Well being the first President of the US was a successful general, why wouldn't the CS's second one be? Lee may very well accept out of a sense of duty.

I'd say someone like John Breckinridge is more likely to succed Davis though.

Mkay, Lee wins, especially if he orchestrated the victory then he would win.

Who comes next.

 

[MarkhamS.Pyle]

Perhaps...

1868 - John H. Reagan
1874 - John Letcher
1880 - Richard H. Taylor
1886 - James Longstreet
1892 - Porter Alexander
1898 - Thomas Jordan Jarvis

 

[bm79]

Mkay, Lee wins, especially if he orchestrated the victory then he would win.

Who comes next.

No, stick to your guns! The example of Washington is spurious since he came out of retirement because the country whose independence he'd won was falling apart at the seams. The same isn't likely to occur to the CSA, at least not within a few years of a successful seccession. Besides, Washington was unaminously chosen by the electoral college without a single popular vote cast for him. Since that's basially what's already happened with Davis in '62, by '68 the Confederate public are going to want to return to the polls to choose their first elected president. Lee by this point is a sick man who knows he won't last a six year term...

 

[Anaxagoras]

Lee being the second Confederate President is extremely unlikely in my view. Yes, he idolized Washington, but comparisons between them can be taken too far. Washington was a planter with an interest in politics, whereas Lee was a professional soldier who exhibited little interest in politics before the war. And Lee knew as early as 1863 that his health was in decline. I cannot see him seeking any political office, and his only desire was to retire and spend a few quiet years at Arlington House.

 

[Thucydides]

Lee being the second Confederate President is extremely unlikely in my view. Yes, he idolized Washington, but comparisons between them can be taken too far. Washington was a planter with an interest in politics, whereas Lee was a professional soldier who exhibited little interest in politics before the war. And Lee knew as early as 1863 that his health was in decline. I cannot see him seeking any political office, and his only desire was to retire and spend a few quiet years at Arlington House.

You just can't win damnit!

I think I'll go with the list above, except I want Longstreet in at 1880-86 so I'll switch him with Taylor.

 

[Atreus]

Lee being the second Confederate President is extremely unlikely in my view. Yes, he idolized Washington, but comparisons between them can be taken too far. Washington was a planter with an interest in politics, whereas Lee was a professional soldier who exhibited little interest in politics before the war. And Lee knew as early as 1863 that his health was in decline. I cannot see him seeking any political office, and his only desire was to retire and spend a few quiet years at Arlington House.

Not to mention that, depending on the POD, Lee may never become a particularly prominent general, especially if he never commands the Army of Northern Virginia (this actually applies to Longstreet as well).

 

[Thucydides]

Not to mention that, depending on the POD, Lee may never become a particularly prominent general, especially if he never commands the Army of Northern Virginia (this actually applies to Longstreet as well).

No he becomes a hero of the Confederacy, along with Jackson and Longstreet. Lee commands the Army of Northern Virginia at Glendale as well as the siege of Washington.

 

[Anaxagoras]

I think I'll go with the list above, except I want Longstreet in at 1880-86 so I'll switch him with Taylor.

I wouldn't think that John Reagan would succeed Davis. He was a damn effective administrator (a post office that makes a profit in the conditions of the ivil War south?!?!), but not a very visible public figure. It would be rather like the Secretary of Veterans Affairs today being the next President.

John C. Breckinridge is the best and most likely choice in my view, but this depends on the POD through which the Confederacy wins the war and how the said POD affected Kentucky's status. Most importantly, he had both a military AND political record. Wade Hampton is another possible choice.

 

[Thucydides]

I wouldn't think that John Reagan would succeed Davis. He was a damn effective administrator (a post office that makes a profit in the conditions of the ivil War south?!?!), but not a very visible public figure. It would be rather like the Secretary of Veterans Affairs today being the next President.

John C. Breckinridge is the best and most likely choice in my view, but this depends on the POD through which the Confederacy wins the war and how the said POD affected Kentucky's status. Most importantly, he had both a military AND political record. Wade Hampton is another possible choice.

I am still debating what happens with Kentucky, the POD is Jackson is himself at Glendale and is able to destroy the Army of the Potomac. After a three-month long siege of Washington the US gives up and sues for peace, still wondering whether or not I can have the Confederacy realistically take Kentucky in that time.

 

[LordVorKon]

What about Raphael Semmes? Granted that his two most famous Civil War engagements occurred after the end of hostilities iTTL, but he still accounted for the capture/destruction of 40+ Union vessels prior to the end of 1862.

Plus, he was a well-liked lawyer in Alabama pre-war and iOTL a professor and judge after the war.

Hmmm... on further thought, maybe he should just be appointed to the Confederate Supreme Court, assuming such a body is ever formed?

 

[Yelnoc]

I wouldn't right off Alexander Stephens. The Triumvirate had plently of influence.

 

[MarkhamS.Pyle]

All right. Let me explain the reasoning.

I suggested the following:
1868 - John H. Reagan
1874 - John Letcher
1880 - Richard H. Taylor
1886 - James Longstreet
1892 - Porter Alexander
1898 - Thomas Jordan Jarvis
The constraints were to create a situation in which Dutch Longstreet would serve in the 1880s and be the last strong president before the breakup of the CSA.
Why, then, these choices?
First: Reagan. The Trans-Mississippi will be looking for a candidate and will feel it deserves a chance. Other major contenders would be Georgia and Virginia; yet Virginia is already seen as over-dominant by many. The horse-trading would favor a Texan of accomplishment, if only to stop (or postpone) moves towards further breakup, and it sure as hell won’t be Wigfall.
The deal would be made palatable by the promise that a Virginian would be next, and the best Virginia politician who’s not Too Danged Old is John Letcher. Moreover, his old Lexington neighbor Stonewall would probably endorse him.
Dick Taylor has a pedigree, a war record, balances things back to the Trans-Mississippi and Deep South, and captures the younger voters.
Porter Alexander is something of a Longstreet protégé in any TL, I think, and is a Georgian. (It’s all about the electoral vote, folks.) He fits as a ‘weak’ president because by now the stresses and strains of whatever breakup is contemplated will have wracked Congress and made it tough for the two branches to cooperate, and he’s Too Damn Nice to rein them in and knock heads.
And Jarvis, of course, as the last president before breakup, is a Zeb Vance follower. This gives the Carolinas a plum, but also means that a believer in the extreme Vancian form of States’ Rights is in the executive mansion, letting the erring sisters depart in peace.
Thus my suggestions.

 

[DuQuense]

Given the Early Victory, most of your CSA, will continue with Ante-Bellum Politics, Isolation, Limited Government, etc.
However your early victory due to a Siege of Washington, may allow the CS to pick up Arizona and the Border states in the Treaty. Or at least a referendum in those states.

A 1862 Victory is before the 13th Amendment was proposed,
1862 means limited Destruction of Property in the South, so the South comes out of the War a lot Richer than OTL.
A CS Victory means Britain doesn't sell the CS Ironclads to Japan.
1862 is before Maximilian.

 

[Citizen Samuel]

What is this obsession with Presidents that everyone has with American politics? I'm much more interested in the political parties post-independence and the like.