CSA Pacific Ports?

So, I was wondering-is there any way at all that the CSA could gain Pacific ports from the USA at any time after its secession? And could it be done with a PoD after secession, or would it require one before it?
 
So, I was wondering-is there any way at all that the CSA could gain Pacific ports from the USA at any time after its secession? And could it be done with a PoD after secession, or would it require one before it?
I think the best option is to do what Turtledove did, and have them buy/conquer a few northern mexican states.
 
Uh, it is not like they didn't try to get there. There was campaign by Sibley in and around Arizona. Due to various factors, mostly tied to logistics this offensive got nowhere. There is absolutely zero possibility Confederate forces could get anywhere near Rockies and California is absolutely outside their reach. It's, like, totally far out, dude. :D

There was no transcontinental rail line at that time and all provisions needed for the army would have to be carted on wagons. All the while, Union would be able to supply their forces in California by sea. After Missisipi was taken by Union even what limited logistic ability Confederation had in this area falls apart.
 
If expansion of the CSA move south into Mexico into the Gulf of Baja if wouldnt exactly be a pacific port but it woud be close.
 
If expansion of the CSA move south into Mexico into the Gulf of Baja if wouldnt exactly be a pacific port but it woud be close.
So in addition to already active fronts on the North, they add another one to the South? I am certain that this would not help them. Beside, they still would be blocked even there. Those people had no navy, while those other did.
 
I don't see any way. sorry. I'm afraid Turtledove was more into making sales than being plausible, in the won civil war series and some others.

They were too far from the Pacific, meaning it'd take too much conquering to reach for their likely lifetime.

Especially since we probably would've joined any war with Mexico against them, and would've kept them too busy to get far.

There's no chance Mexico would voluntarily sell something so valuable to them as either Southern California or the long path to reach it. Doubly especially with the Rumsfeldesque CSA "diplomacy.":p

And, it probably wouldn't've been a worthwhile venture to them, because the intervening totally vast Mexican turf was unfriendly to farming and they were more into land than sea access.
 
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I always thought that the CS would try to join France in establishing a canal through Nicaragua like they tried to do OTL. That would technically make every port between Texas and Florida a Pacific port, since that's where all the trade would come from.

Much easier than conquering/purchasing new territory from Mexico, and it allows them near complete dominance of the Caribbean. However, if you want an exciting military campaign for your timeline, you could always get a future CS President to try to invade an annex Nicaragua to make it a CS territory and establish a canal that way. Though your best bet is to get a canal in the Caribbean to link to the Pacific so CS ships don't have to go around South America to get from ocean to ocean.
 
Buying or conquering northern Mexican States was mentioned. Pico Act was also mentioned. Another way to split California earlier is changing the Compromise of 1850. And finally, you could have the USA lend ports to the CSA after tensions cool.

The first is probably hard and not going to happen. The Second and Third could happen I guess, but then the question is (assuming the states seceded which would be an open question) could the CSA keep Southern California since it'd be far away, with two territories in between it and the Confederacy propper which the CSA couldn't take anyway? Probably not, but you could probably work it so that it happens. I think the last one is easiest, but would have to happen late, probably sometime in the 20th century.
 
Question. Is this a Maxamillian Mexico or Juarez's Mexico we're speaking of, for timeline purposes.

If it's Maxamillian in charge with French backing (Nap III was a bit of a CSA fan) I see a maybe for Sonora/Chihuahua.

If it's Juarez, who was a pro-Union/Lincoln man, no way.

Though, Turtledove had the right idea about a Nicaraguan Canal.
 
Question. Is this a Maxamillian Mexico or Juarez's Mexico we're speaking of, for timeline purposes.

If it's Maxamillian in charge with French backing (Nap III was a bit of a CSA fan) I see a maybe for Sonora/Chihuahua.

If it's Juarez, who was a pro-Union/Lincoln man, no way.

Though, Turtledove had the right idea about a Nicaraguan Canal.
I would assume it's Maximilian's Mexico in question. After all, he was in power until 1867.
 
It's not like Mexico will not fight the CSA, and if it's republican Mexico then chances are the USA will be selling them stuff.
 
It's not like Mexico will not fight the CSA.
If it's the Second Mexican Empire, they'd likely be friendly to the CSA, at least initially. Remember that the Second Mexican Empire was propped up by the French, and was practically their puppet; the French were also sympathetic to the Confederate cause because they wished to weaken the USA. So I would imagine that if the CSA won the war, the French would be among the first to recognize them and would likely gain good relations with them. With this, the SME would likely have good relations with the CSA as well. If the SME managed to last in a CSA victory scenario, then the two nations might even become friends and form an anti-US alliance. Or at least, that's how I imagine things.
 
If it's the Second Mexican Empire, they'd likely be friendly to the CSA, at least initially. Remember that the Second Mexican Empire was propped up by the French, and was practically their puppet; the French were also sympathetic to the Confederate cause because they wished to weaken the USA. So I would imagine that if the CSA won the war, the French would be among the first to recognize them and would likely gain good relations with them. With this, the SME would likely have good relations with the CSA as well. If the SME managed to last in a CSA victory scenario, then the two nations might even become friends and form an anti-US alliance. Or at least, that's how I imagine things.
That is how I see it too.

But how sure are we of the Second Mexican Empire selling territory to the CSA?
 
That is how I see it too.

But how sure are we of the Second Mexican Empire selling territory to the CSA?
I'm not saying the SME would sell land to them. I'm just saying that the CSA would likely not go into conflict with the SME, because one is France's friend and the other is France's puppet.
 
I'm not saying the SME would sell land to them. I'm just saying that the CSA would likely not go into conflict with the SME, because one is France's friend and the other is France's puppet.
Pretty much, yes.

I think Turtledove got it right that an early CS victory gives Maxamillian's Mexico a better chance of survival, as well.

But even if Sonora and Chihuahua don't become part of the CSA they are going to be dependent on the CSA economically, just like how they are with the US IOTL.
 
if the Confederate Cuba cliche is included, i think the most realistic way for this to be accomplished would be for the CSA to spearhead canal construction in Central America and have their primary "Pacific" ports at Cuba, with secondary ones on the Gulf Coast or at the tip of Florida.

another possibility comes to mind, though: what if, instead of buying entire countries, territories, or states, the CSA just buys a couple of ports each on the Atlantic and Pacific sides along with the rights to establish overland routes under their control across Central America, simply setting out ships from their singular Pacific ports to get their trade goods, bringing the goods inland, and then setting them out again from their Atlantic ports. i guess you could think of it as being like the Chinese cities under the control of European countries that were used to get Chinese goods
 
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