CSA Negotiated Peace In 1864

The problem with the CSA winning is that it is militarily impossible. There has to be a negotiated peace.
Let's say that McClellan wins the election and there is an armistice with the sides occupying the ground they hold pending a peace treaty. The Union and Confederacy agree on release of prisoners and population exchange for the white and free population.
It becomes difficult for the war to start up again because the soldiers refuse to fight in such numbers that it is impracticable to make them. They just see no further reason to fight and are willing for anyone that wants to fight to just take their place and show up for the next battle. Otherwise, if you don't like your neighbors you can sell your house and move to the other side.
But the Union occupied area of the former Confederacy is so large that there is no room in it for slave owners or slaves because of all the refugee antislavery white people fleeing Confederate conscription. Meanwhile there is no room for the black people in the Confederacy because of all the former slave owners being chased out of the Union occupied territory in Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, Arkansas, etc.
So the Union just buys Texas as a settlement area for the slaves that have been displaced by the refugees from the Confederacy. Added to the Union occupied territory of Louisiana, there is a large black republic in what was Texas. The landowners of Texas are simply bought out at a fair price, or allowed to hold on to their land if they want.
It will be expensive to compensate more than a hundred thousand white people in Texas but it's far cheaper than continuing the war for another year and it is acceptable to the Union. The Confederacy is also under pressure from the British because they see a chance to get all those loans paid off. No peace treaty means no blockade runners!
So we wind up with a North, a South, a Texas, a Utah, a West Coast, a Canada, and maybe an Alaska that is not American because the USA doesn't have the postwar government subsidizing the railroad and the purchase of Alaska. No Union Pacific and Central Pacific also means that Utah stays cut off from regular traffic with the rest of the USA for another generation.
What happens when the North has the 'stab in the back' legend to mull over for a generation?
Would the abolitionists of the Union army be able to force the war to continue until the slaves were legally as well as practically emancipated? They still have to sneak more than a hundred miles away to be free when they reach Union territory. More if they are in Florida.
Would the southerners who have lost their electoral majorities in the freed states of Kentucky, Louisiana, Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, and eventually Texas be able to keep the war going? As the freed states get more like the north in terms of democracy and public education, they will pull more and more southerners out of the south to take advantage of the different societies. This leaves only a third of the south in the south and makes them weaker in terms of population.
 
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The problem with the CSA winning is that it is militarily impossible. There has to be a negotiated peace.

MOST wars are won by a negotiated peace, very few are won by unconditional surrender of the defeated power.

As an example the Russo-Japanese War was won by a negotiated peace, the Crimean War was won by a negotiated peace, the Austro-Prussian War was won by a negotiated peace.

Therefore for the CSA to win it simply needs to be militarily strong ENOUGH that a negotiated peace giving it its independence seems like a good alternative to the leaders of the Union

Grey Wolf
 
wkwillis said:
But the Union occupied area is so large that there is no room in it for slave owners or slaves because of all the refugee antislavery white people fleeing Confederate conscription. Meanwhile there is no room for the black people in the Confederacy because of all the former slave owners being chased out of the Union occupied territory.

One needs to be aware that the Emancipation Proclamation specifically DID NOT APPLY to Union territory or to Confederate territory occupied by Union forces. Therefore, Union slave-owners and Confederate slave-owners under Union occupation had the force of law on their side.

Grey Wolf
 

Hyperion

Banned
I'm guessing that the election happens in late 1864, and the Mclellan wouldn't take over until 1865. By that time, the war is all but over anyway. By that point, even if a negotiated peace was signed where the Confederacy was allowed to exist, it would be divided in multiple areas. The Union would control the Mississippi. Sherman would have marched through Georgia, captured Atlanta and Savannah, and be heading into the Carolinas. Most major ports in the Confederacy, barring Florida, would be occupied or surrounded by Union forces.
 

Straha

Banned
I think a more likely CSA win would be no attack on fort sumter. By the time the CSA is ready to officially leave a year later they've the border states on board and have had more time to ready troops....
 
Grey Wolf said:
One needs to be aware that the Emancipation Proclamation specifically DID NOT APPLY to Union territory or to Confederate territory occupied by Union forces. Therefore, Union slave-owners and Confederate slave-owners under Union occupation had the force of law on their side.

Grey Wolf
Well, it's like this.
The Republican majority in Congress did not vote to liberate the slaves because they were worried that they would lose their majority in Congress and the Presidency in the election of 1864, but if they lost their majority in Congress and the Presidency in the election of 1864 they would no longer be so constrained, so they would quite legally vote to end slavery right then and there.
Ditto on the ethnic cleansing that would make Maryland, Northern Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, and Arkansaw into Union states.
As Grant put it, "If McClellan wins, we will have to conduct our affairs so as to win the war before he takes office." They have only November, December, January, February, and the first three weeks of March to do that.
 

Hyperion

Banned
wkwillis said:
Well, it's like this.
The Republican majority in Congress did not vote to liberate the slaves because they were worried that they would lose their majority in Congress and the Presidency in the election of 1864, but if they lost their majority in Congress and the Presidency in the election of 1864 they would no longer be so constrained, so they would quite legally vote to end slavery right then and there.
Ditto on the ethnic cleansing that would make Maryland, Northern Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, and Arkansaw into Union states.
As Grant put it, "If McClellan wins, we will have to conduct our affairs so as to win the war before he takes office." They have only November, December, January, February, and the first three weeks of March to do that.

By mid March of 1865, despite that fact that there was still a couple months worth of fighting still to come, the outcome is pretty much set in stone. Richmond has fallen. Every major port city in the Confederacy, barring a couple of towns in Florida and Texas are under Union control, effectively cutting the Confederacy off from outside aid. The Mississippi is in Union hands. Sherman has maid a line through Georgia, and is moving into North Carolina. Unless something where to happen near the end of 1864, or early in 1865 that might make one or more of the European powers get involved, at least politically, the Confederacy doesn't stand a chance.
 

Raymann

Banned
Agreed, the POD is just too late. Have Lincoln get shot earlier or something and maybe.

And scratch that Texas idea, the Civil War was before Kelo v. New London so takings on that scale are out of the question. The Texans won't sell and there has been what, two battles on Texas soil, skirmishes at that.

If there is a settlement after the Mississippi is retaken, Texas becomes part of the Union again, period. Same goes for Utah, Louisiana, Arkansas, parts of Tennessee, and parts of Virginia.
 
Raymann said:
Agreed, the POD is just too late. Have Lincoln get shot earlier or something and maybe.

And scratch that Texas idea, the Civil War was before Kelo v. New London so takings on that scale are out of the question. The Texans won't sell and there has been what, two battles on Texas soil, skirmishes at that.

If there is a settlement after the Mississippi is retaken, Texas becomes part of the Union again, period. Same goes for Utah, Louisiana, Arkansas, parts of Tennessee, and parts of Virginia.
Maybe more freed slaves would go to Liberia.
 
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