CS Victory at Chattanooga?

November 25, 1863

Confederate artillery is placed on the military crest rather than the actual crest of Missionary Ridge during the Third Battle of Chattanooga. This gives them a better field of fire, and allows them to work much more effectively than in OTL. Thus, as the Union tries to advance upwards to capture the remaining rifle lines, they are beat back, and suffer heavy casualties.


November 26-27, 1863

Further Union flanking attempts are thwarted and thrown back. By now, Ulysses S. Grant is furious with General Thomas, and has him temporarily relieved of command.

Bragg orders a major counterattack against the Union lines. During the Second Battle of Wauhatchie, the Confederates break through the Cracker Line, cutting off the only major Union supply route. To the north, Confederate troops under Major General Cleburne manage to break through Union lines commanded by Sherman. Throughout the night, Sherman’s flank begins to collapse, and fear runs high. As morning dawns, with the Confederates shelling Union positions, and a total break down of his lines imminent, Grant orders the entire army to retreat to avoid destruction.

The Confederacy has won the battle. Casualties are 4,700 for the CS (700 killed, 3,350 wounded, and 380 missing) and 10,705 for the Union (1,135 killed, 5,470 wounded, and 4,100 missing/captured).

The Union is forced to retreat to Signal Mountain. Grant considers splitting his forces, sending one unit to Red Bank in the hopes of being able to lure the Confederates in between the two mountain passes (the two towns are only three miles apart) and pinning them down through artillery fire and a counter strike.


November 28, 1863

Through the night of the 27th-28th, the Union had been hastily erecting defensive barricades throughout their respective positions. As they had worked, the Confederates had not been far off. In the morning, Grant’s troops were tired from the consecutive days of little sleep and last night’s rushed construction, while Bragg’s on the other hand, had gotten some sleep after their victory, and were rested enough, and on high morals.

Bragg’s attack begins at about 9:00 in the morning. He brings two divisions to attack each town-he knows the Union isn’t too well entrenched, but also knows that they still have numbers on their side. Yet he pins his hopes on wearing the Union down-and giving them the impression that his army is actually larger than it really is. As Confederate forces move up the hills, they come under heavy small-arms fire, and smaller amounts of Union artillery fire; the Union had lost much equipment during the Battle of Chattanooga, and what pieces they managed to take with them have been positioned along the other ends of the hills and have been zeroed in on the spot where the Confederates are to be lured in and hopefully trapped.

By 12:00, the initial Confederate attacks have failed, and they regroup at the base of the hills. During this time, the Union sends a large force through to the center of Confederate lines. This is to be the lure. As the Yankees retreat, and the Southrons advance after them, the Confederates are drawn in between the mountains. As Union artillery fire opens up, the Confederates take heavy losses, and quickly retreat, faster than expected. The Union force that was supposed to cut off their rear is not in position yet, and they are overrun.

What was supposed to be a decisive victory is not quite that. At around 1:00, the Confederate sides resume their attacks on the two mountains. This time, they break through. Union front lines are thrown into panic, and even as Sherman and Grant order the lines to hold, they systematically fall apart.

Once again, the Union has been defeated. They are forced on a long retreat all the way back to Murfreesboro. The Battle of the Two Mountains, as it is known in the South (the Battle of Hamilton Pass in the north), will leave the Western/Tennessee front secure until spring.


Confederate casualties: 1,654 killed, 8,108 wounded, 285 missing
Union casualties: 1,638 killed, 8,015 wounded, 1,330 missing/captured
 
Well Bragg will have to find food & other basic supplies first as the Reb army was starving, lacking equipment, not to mention it didn't have enough cannon & minie balls, let alone gunpowder, in order to conduct such an attack, let alone repulse the OTL Union offensive.

Oh & did I mention that Bragg was the Union's secret weapon? :D
 
Well Bragg will have to find food & other basic supplies first as the Reb army was starving, lacking equipment, not to mention it didn't have enough cannon & minie balls, let alone gunpowder, in order to conduct such an attack, let alone repulse the OTL Union offensive.

Oh & did I mention that Bragg was the Union's secret weapon? :D

I realize that Bragg was generally incompetent, but during this hypothetical Chattanooga, they manage to stave off Thomas's attack on the rifle pits, scrounge up the extra ammo that his troops leave behind when they retreat, and with that, manage to fend of the later Union flank attacks, thus gaining them more supplies (if only marginal). With these hoarded supplies, Bragg finally does something that pays off, mostly due to the pressuirng of his subordinates, and launches those decisve attacks. With the Union in full retreat, having abandoned much equipment, and thanks to Chattanooga's natural productivety and food/supply stores, they are quickly able to get much-needed supplies in order to launch next days battle.
 


I realize that Bragg was generally incompetent, but during this hypothetical Chattanooga, they manage to stave off Thomas's attack on the rifle pits, scrounge up the extra ammo that his troops leave behind when they retreat, and with that, manage to fend of the later Union flank attacks, thus gaining them more supplies (if only marginal). With these hoarded supplies, Bragg finally does something that pays off, mostly due to the pressuirng of his subordinates, and launches those decisve attacks. With the Union in full retreat, having abandoned much equipment, and thanks to Chattanooga's natural productivety and food/supply stores, they are quickly able to get much-needed supplies in order to launch next days battle.


Actually it's not Thomas, the Rebs have to be aware of, but Hooker's corps who just decide the attack against orders.

But far more importantly the Reb army was starving. They were outnumbered. They didn't have much of anything to live in. They lacked munitions.

Yet, in the end, it wasn't any significant strategy of Grant's, nor even Hooker's impulsive attack, which defeated them, instead they simply didn't have the spirit to continue the fight, not due to the lack of will, but because they simply didn't have the physical energy.

If they did, well it'd be a different story, as the Reb had all the the advantages: they had the high ground, they had impressive defensive ground; but if they don't have the ammo, let alone the strength, then a Union battalion manned by kindergarten school children of 5 year olds could have taken their positions & won the battle.

Fundamentally the CSA Army of Tennessee, at this exact point in time, needs food & ammo. It had neither, whilst the Union enjoyed shiploads of everything conceivably required & then some. Plus, the Union enjoying good generals, at the same time, was likewise significant.
 
Then whe drop back a week and have several CS companies capture a major Union Supply train.

With this defeat on his Permanant Record, I doubt that Grant will be called East to take over the AotP.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Repulsing the Union attack is possible, but I do not think the Confederates, in the condition they were in, could have gone over to the attack themselves.

I think a better POD would be for Bragg to be relieved of command between Chickamauga and Chattanooga, being replaced by Longstreet. Having Longstreet's two divisions (which, IOTL, were sent on a wild goose chase to Knoxville) would also have helped.
 
How about this?

September 20, 1863
As Longstreet breaks through Union lines at Chickamauga, Thomas’s lines also begin to collapse, unlike in OTL, where they held and prevented a total route. Soon, the entire army has been routed and destroyed, thanks to Longstreet launching an aggressive chase on their retreat, with Forrest launching repeated cavalry attacks on their rear, inflicting many casualties. Instead of a tactical Confederate victory as in OTL, Rosecrans is completely routed, and arrives in Chattanooga with his army in a much weaker state, while Bragg is much stronger, and has gained much-needed supplies from what Union soldiers left behind in their unorganized retreat.

Union casualties: 3,969 killed, 12,314 wounded, and 6,125 missing/captured
Confederate casualties: 2,615 killed, 11,300 wounded, and 1,847 captured/missing


October, 1863
Bragg follows Rosecrans to Chattanooga. He quickly occupies all high points around the city-Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge. Yet Davis and Lee are not happy with Bragg’s recent performances, since the only reason Chickamauga was a victory for them was because of the actions of his subordinates-namely Longstreet. Thus, Longstreet is promoted and becomes commander of the Army of Tennessee on October 19. Bragg is relocated to the Eastern Front.


October 26, 1863
William F. Smith’s (Grant’s chief engineer) “Cracker Line Operation” is initiated by Grant and Thomas. As General Hooker’s reinforcements and supplies begin to pour into the city, Longstreet realizes what is going on. He orders an immediate attack on Brown’s Ferry.


October 28-29, 1863
The Battle of Wauhatchie. Confederate Brigadier General Micah Jenkins launches a night attack on Union Brig. Gen. John W. Geary’s forces guarding Wauhatchie Station on the Nashville and Chattanooga Railroad. In OTL, Geary holds out strong until reinforcements arrive, but this time, he is overcome with the sudden death of his son during the battle, and is unable to issue orders in his unit. His forces quickly collapse and retreat, and the Confederates capture Wauhatchie Station.
Hearing the sounds of battle, Hooker orders several divisions to move towards the source. Major General Otis Howard attempts to re-take Wauhatchie Station, but is thrown back by determined Confederate resistance multiple times, and is forced to retreat when the Confederate counter-attack nearly catches him in a pincer.
Meanwhile, Union Maj. Gen. Carl Schurz (after taking the wrong road) approaches the Confederate Maj. General Law’s position on a small hill that dominates the road to Brown’s Ferry. The fight is ferocious, but after being repulsed several times with atrocious casualties, and receiving word that other Union attacks have failed, he also decides to retreat.
As morning dawns, little supplies have arrived through Brown’s Ferry, either destroyed, or captured by the Confederates. Now, 50,000 Union troops are trapped in Chattanooga, almost out of ammo, and other essential supplies.


November, 1863
Grant is ordered to hold fast, as Sherman and his 20,000 troops are on their way. Longstreet also launches several operations, using Fabian strategy to his advantage, in an effort to wear down Union supplies, troops, and moral.


November 16, 1863
Sherman arrives with much-needed reinforcements, but ammo and food is still low. Sherman brought only enough for his own troops, due t the hasty nature of his march.
Grant decides to launch offensive operations.

November 23, 1863
Initial offensive advances launched by Thomas to capture a line from Orchard Knob and Indian Hill to Bushy Knob, and including Bald Knob. His advances meet little Confederate resistance. Longstreet moves a division to strengthen his flank.

November 24, 1863
Hooker attacks Confederate forces at Moccasin point, on Longstreet’s left flank, while Sherman attacks on the right. However, by the end of the day, with Hooker’s forces running even lower on ammo, and Sherman unable to break Cleburne’s line, both Generals decide to retreat back to the city, and the Confederates continue to occupy the high ground.


November 25, 1863
Confederate artillery is placed on the military crest rather than the actual crest of Missionary Ridge. This gives them a better field of fire, and allows them to work much more effectively than in OTL. Thomas, disobeying orders, decides to launch what he hopes to be an operation to secure victory. Her moves against the rifle pits. Despite capturing the first row of rifle pits (as in OTL) his troops suffer heavy casualties on advancing on the last two, thanks to the better positioned artillery, and he is forced to retreat. Grant, upon hearing of this, is furious. Soon, the Confederates are advancing to cut off al means of escape from Moccasin Point, and Grant has no choice but to retreat.

The Confederacy has won the battle. Casualties are 5,500 for the CS (1,200 killed, 3,550 wounded, and 380 missing) and 10,705 for the Union (1,535 killed, 5,470 wounded, and 4,100 missing/captured).

The Union is forced to retreat to Signal Mountain. Grant decides to split his forces, sending one unit to Red Bank in the hopes of being able to lure the Confederates in between the two mountain passes (the two towns are only three miles apart) and pinning them down through artillery fire and a counter strike.


November 27, 1863

Through the days of the 25th-27th, the Union had been hastily erecting defensive barricades throughout their respective positions. As they had worked, the Confederates had not been far off. In the morning, Grant’s troops were tired from the consecutive days of little sleep, while Longstreet’s on the other hand, had gotten some sleep after their victory, and were rested enough, and on high morals.

Longstreet’s attack begins at about 9:00 in the morning. He brings two divisions to attack each town-he knows the Union isn’t too well entrenched, but also knows that they still have numbers on their side. Yet he pins his hopes on wearing the Union down-and giving them the impression that his army is actually larger than it really is. As Confederate forces move up the hills, they come under heavy small-arms fire, and smaller amounts of Union artillery fire; the Union had lost much equipment during the Battle of Chattanooga, and what pieces they managed to take with them have been positioned along the other ends of the hills and have been zeroed in on the spot where the Confederates are to be lured in and hopefully trapped.

By 12:00, the initial Confederate attacks have failed, and they regroup at the base of the hills. During this time, the Union sends a large force through to the center of Confederate lines. This is to be the lure. As the Yankees retreat, and the Southrons advance after them, the Confederates are drawn in between the mountains. As Union artillery fire opens up, the Confederates take heavy losses, and as planned, are forced to retreat. The Union force that was supposed to cut off their rear is in position, but they are too few, and Confederate reserves quickly come to help, thus trapping those who wished to trap others.

What was supposed to be a decisive victory is not quite that. At around 1:00, the Confederate flanks resume their attacks on the two mountains. This time, they break through. Union front lines are thrown into panic, and even as Sherman and Grant order the lines to hold, they systematically fall apart.

Once again, the Union has been defeated. They are forced on a long retreat all the way back to Murfreesboro. The Battle of the Two Mountains, as it is known in the South (the Battle of Hamilton Pass in the north), will leave the Western/Tennessee front secure for the South until spring.


Confederate casualties: 1,654 killed, 8,108 wounded, 285 missing
Union casualties: 1,638 killed, 8,015 wounded, 2,330 missing/captured
 
The main points that aren't totally acutrate for the time are how you deal with Bragg and Thomas.

For Bragg to be removed from command he would have to be either injured or killed because even in the OTL Bragg had lost all the confidance of his army and the generals tried to get him removed but Davis didn't remove him because "no suitable relacements could be found".

And if George Henry Thomas cannot stand his ground at Chickamauga and retreats the he wont survive as a commander when Grant arrives. If the Army of the Cumberland retreats and Thomas is left alone, as OTL, the the simple act of not sending the Union force under Brig. Gen James B. Steedman to his aid will mean that Longstreet will be able to totally envelop Thomas and that would take him out of the way.

Other than that I can think of nothing else to add...
 
Hmm I geuss you guys are right. But wouldn't it seem like treason if Forrest shot Bragg? Perhaps, it could be an incident similar to Jackson's death-he gets hit by friendly fire on accident.

And when Longstreet sweeps across the Union lines, and Forrest breaks through Thomas isn't totally enveloped, even though most of the forces under his command are-he manages to escape, but much of his army is lost.

The main points that aren't totally acutrate for the time are how you deal with Bragg and Thomas.

For Bragg to be removed from command he would have to be either injured or killed because even in the OTL Bragg had lost all the confidance of his army and the generals tried to get him removed but Davis didn't remove him because "no suitable relacements could be found".

And if George Henry Thomas cannot stand his ground at Chickamauga and retreats the he wont survive as a commander when Grant arrives. If the Army of the Cumberland retreats and Thomas is left alone, as OTL, the the simple act of not sending the Union force under Brig. Gen James B. Steedman to his aid will mean that Longstreet will be able to totally envelop Thomas and that would take him out of the way.

Other than that I can think of nothing else to add...

We once had a thread where Forrest shoots Bragg dead after Chickamauga...

 
October, 1863
Bragg follows Rosecrans to Chattanooga. He quickly occupies all high points around the city-Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge. Yet Davis and Lee are not happy with Bragg’s recent performances, since the only reason Chickamauga was a victory for them was because of the actions of his subordinates-namely Longstreet. Thus, Longstreet is promoted and becomes commander of the Army of Tennessee on October 19. Bragg is relocated to the Eastern Front.

In OTL, Chickamauga was a victory for the Confederates because of the actions of his subordinates - mainly Longstreet. Bragg also failed to pursue and when Jefferson Davis visited a couple weeks later every single one of the subordinate generals said they had no confidence in Bragg in front of both Davis and Bragg.

If Davis wouldn't remove Bragg after that, his lesser failure in this timeline won't be enough.
 
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Hmm I geuss you guys are right. But wouldn't it seem like treason if Forrest shot Bragg? Perhaps, it could be an incident similar to Jackson's death-he gets hit by friendly fire on accident.

Well, if Forrest were tried and executed for treason, at least this timeline would have the result of not having a KKK.

Honestly, Forrest was just enough of a loose cannon that I don't think it's completely implausible to have a timeline where he loses his cool and kills Bragg. Heck, Bragg's other subordinates might have even participated in a coverup.
 
Sadly, you could still get a KKK since Forrest did not found it. Forrest did have a track record of threatening superior officers, such as Wheeler and Hood, and he was angry with Bragg for not allowing a proper pursuit after Chickamauga.

So Forrest losing it and killing Bragg is possible, if unlikely. The thing is, he might just get away with it, a Union general Jefferson C. Davis, did. And while I don't think the other CSA generals would have tried to cover up Forrest killing Bragg, they'd have testified in his favor.

OTPH, Jefferson F. Davis would have been incensed at the death of his friend and would definitely want Forrest's head for it. Perhaps something like this (based on his proclamation against Benjamin Butler).

"Now, therefore, I, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, and in their name, do pronounce and declare the said Nathan B Forrest to be a felon, deserving of capital punishment. I do order that he be no longer considered or treated simply as a public enemy of the Confederate States of America, but as an outlaw and common enemy of mankind, and that in the event of his capture the officer in command of the capturing force do cause him to be immediately executed by hanging."
 
"Now, therefore, I, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, and in their name, do pronounce and declare the said Nathan B Forrest to be a felon, deserving of capital punishment. I do order that he be no longer considered or treated simply as a public enemy of the Confederate States of America, but as an outlaw and common enemy of mankind, and that in the event of his capture the officer in command of the capturing force do cause him to be immediately executed by hanging."
Isn't this a -Bill of Attainer-
and doesn't the CS consitution like the US Consitution prohibit them.
 
Isn't this a -Bill of Attainer-
and doesn't the CS consitution like the US Consitution prohibit them.

That is correct. It's also taken directly from a document issued in OTL by Jefferson Davis. All I did was change the name from Benjamin Butler to Nathan B Forrest. In the same document, Davis also ordered:

"That all commissioned officers in the command of said Benjamin F. Butler be declared not entitled to be considered as soldiers engaged in honorable warfare, but as robbers and criminals, deserving death; and that they and each of them be, whenever captured, reserved for execution."

"That the like orders be executed in all cases with respect to all commissioned officers of the United States when found serving in company with armed slaves in insurrection against the authorities of the different States of this Confederacy."
 
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