CS presidential elections: 1867 - ...

[galileo-034]

Having deliberately left the background vague because I want not to be too limited as I know little about Confederate politics. I've begun this TL to express some general ideas I have about the development of an independent Confederacy; I'm aware of course that some details could be somewhat incorrect.
I choose Johnston because I need a famous general, opposed to Davis if possible, as running mate of Stephens. As I've thought Lee would be more likely to retire, I choose Johnston. I'm open to other suggestions.

 

[Elfwine]

Famous general, opposed to Davis...I nominate Beauregard.

He's probably looking better in this timeline, and him entering politics isn't as far fetched, I think.

 

[Nytram01]

This explains a lot.

But that aside, if not Johnston, who?

That' the question. I noticed there was no Louis T. Wigfall in the original post and he was a major player in politics during the war. Also no Toombs or Cobb or even Reagan.

 

[Nytram01]

Having deliberately left the background vague because I want not to be too limited as I know little about Confederate politics. I've begun this TL to express some general ideas I have about the development of an independent Confederacy; I'm aware of course that some details could be somewhat incorrect.
I choose Johnston because I need a famous general, opposed to Davis if possible, as running mate of Stephens. As I've thought Lee would be more likely to retire, I choose Johnston. I'm open to other suggestions.

I second the nomination of Beauregard. Beauregard was ambitous to the extreme and actively attempted to play politics during the war and was an active political figure in OTL after the war. I think he would have covetted a high political office. Alternatively you could go for Longstreet.

 

[Elfwine]

That' the question. I noticed there was no Louis T. Wigfall in the original post and he was a major player in politics during the war. Also no Toombs or Cobb or even Reagan.

I'd definitely expect at least one of those first three - although they might look bad.

Now that's a thought. A Cobb-Cobb ticket - the two brothers.

Not sure if it would go anywhere, just amusing.

 

[galileo-034]

I noticed there was no Louis T. Wigfall in the original post and he was a major player in politics during the war. Also no Toombs or Cobb or even Reagan

I see them partisans of one of the candidates, or killed during the war.

I second the nomination of Beauregard. Beauregard was ambitous to the extreme and actively attempted to play politics during the war and was an active political figure in OTL after the war. I think he would have covetted a high political office. Alternatively you could go for Longstreet.

I've thought to Beauregard, but I want to keep him for a later time. What's more, he has past a too long time in coastal defenses. Longstreet sounds to me better, since he has campaigned in one of the major theatres. I will edit soon.

 

[galileo-034]

CS presidential election - November 1873
　
Background:
Few are now the nations which still don't recognize the CSA.
The economical crisis begun in Vienna has just reached the USA (september), but due to the almost non-existence of trade with the northern neighbour, the CSA haven't yet been affected.
If the political scene is still dominated by factionalism, two informal trends of ideas begin to appear as factions begin to identify themselves as 'liberal' or 'conservative'.
　
　
Governor Z.B.Vance (NC) / Governor F. Lee (VA) ; 80 electoral votes (54.1 % of the popular vote)
Vice President J. Longstreet (AL) / Governor P.G.T. Beauregard (LA) ; 51 electoral votes (43.8 % of the popular vote)
Minor candidates; 0 electoral votes (2,1 % of the popular vote)
　
Final Result
Elected 3rd President of the CSA

Zebulon Baird Vance
from North Carolina
　
Elected 3rd Vice President of the CSA

Fitzhugh Lee
from Virginia

 

[Johnrankins]

CS presidential election - November 1873
　
Background:
Few are now the nations which still don't recognize the CSA.
The economical crisis begun in Vienna has just reached the USA (september), but due to the almost non-existence of trade with the northern neighbour, the CSA haven't yet been affected.
If the political scene is still dominated by factionalism, two informal trends of ideas begin to appear as factions begin to identify themselves as 'liberal' or 'conservative'.
　
View attachment 171627　
Governor Z.B.Vance (NC) / Governor F. Lee (VA) ; 80 electoral votes (54.1 % of the popular vote)
Vice President J. Longstreet (AL) / Governor P.G.T. Beauregard (LA) ; 51electoral votes (43.8 % of the popular vote)
Minor candidates; 0 electoral votes (2,1 % of the popular vote)
　
Final Result
Elected 3rd President of the CSA

Zebulon Baird Vance
from North Carolina
　
Elected 3rd Vice President of the CSA

Fitzhugh Lee
from Virginia

The CSA should also be in an economic crisis and has been in one it entire existance. Paying interest on the debt and paying the army would be virtually the entire CSA budget. The iflation rate would be very high but it probably would fall a bit to say 500% a year or so with interest rates maybe around 15% a month . Its PCI should still be very low but at least the railroads should be working, more or less. Still, it doesn't have the money to maintain its railroad engines very well and it can't afford to buy new ones.

 

[galileo-034]

The propagation of the crisis to the CSA should coincide with the election of Vance.

 

[Evan]

Sometime in the '70's if not earlier, people are going to demand that Missouri and Kentucky lose most of their House seats if not all their representation, since they have almost no voting population. I'd have favored doing that with the Census of 1870, but it could easily be done later.

 

[Fleetlord]

Sometime in the '70's if not earlier, people are going to demand that Missouri and Kentucky lose most of their House seats if not all their representation, since they have almost no voting population. I'd have favored doing that with the Census of 1870, but it could easily be done later.

How are the votes for Missouri and Kentucky determined, anyway?

 

[Johnrankins]

Sometime in the '70's if not earlier, people are going to demand that Missouri and Kentucky lose most of their House seats if not all their representation, since they have almost no voting population. I'd have favored doing that with the Census of 1870, but it could easily be done later.

Agreed, they can keep up that pretense only so long. The only people voting for those seats are refugees outside of the states in question. What happens when they all die off? People are going to ask that question since it will be obvious that the CSA will never control those states and the people in those states will be voting in US elections.

 

[Evan]

How are the votes for Missouri and Kentucky determined, anyway?

Refugees, I'm pretty sure. That's how Tennessee and New Orleans reelected their congressmen in 1864.

 

[galileo-034]

I've not forgotten this 'controversy' (it's why I've mentionned 'some electoral controversies' in the first post).
I think that a census would be more convenient after the war, so in 1865/1866, to take account of the demographic consequences of the war. So, the next census would occur around 1875-1876. I will reduce the number of representatives for Kentucky and Missouri to 1.
There is also Virginia which has the half of his territories 'occupied'. I could reduce also the number of representatives from 16 to 12 or 10.

How are the votes for Missouri and Kentucky determined, anyway?

Refugees, I'm pretty sure.

There are refugees of course, but I've thought also to have the votes of Kentucky and Missouri determined in the same manner that the one used by South Carolina.

 

[Johnrankins]

I've not forgotten this 'controversy' (it's why I've mentionned 'some electoral controversies' in the first post).
I think that a census would be more convenient after the war, so in 1865/1866, to take account of the demographic consequences of the war. So, the next census would occur around 1875-1876. I will reduce the number of representatives for Kentucky and Missouri to 1.
There is also Virginia which has the half of his territories 'occupied'. I could reduce also the number of representatives from 16 to 12 or 10.

[QUOTERefugees, I'm pretty sure.]

There are refugees of course, but I've thought also to have the votes of Kentucky and Missouri determined in the same manner that the one used by South Carolina.

Which is how? People from KY and MO won't be able to vote in any election due to them being part of the US. I would cut their representation to zero and have the CSA officially state once the CSA "recaptures them" they will once more be represented. Of course they would never be recaptured and the higher ups would know it but wouldn't officially admit it to save face.

 

[galileo-034]

The Census of 75-76 would be only a temporary solution to the electoral problem. I've imagined that in the 1880s, the governments in exile of Kentucky and Missouri would decide to unite their state to other states (Kentucky with Virginia and Missouri with Arkansas for exemple).

 

[Johnrankins]

The Census of 75-76 would be only a temporary solution to the electoral problem. I've imagined that in the 1880s, the governments in exile of Kentucky and Missouri would decide to unite their state to other states (Kentucky with Virginia and Missouri with Arkansas for exemple).

Unite what? KY and MO have no land. That is what the problem is, I don't think that the citizens of the CSA would forever allow "states" that have no actual state residents to be represented. Eventually they would demand they not be represented at all.

 

[galileo-034]

Technically, their union to other states would mean they wouldn't have their own delegations in the Congress, but that they could also still be claimed as a part of the CSA.

 

[Johnrankins]

Technically, their union to other states would mean they wouldn't have their own delegations in the Congress, but that they could also still be claimed as a part of the CSA.

I guess that could work. Once that generation dies off even that is gone.

 

[Evan]

There are refugees of course, but I've thought also to have the votes of Kentucky and Missouri determined in the same manner that the one used by South Carolina.

That's a pretty good idea for the electoral vote (SC had its state legislature choose Electors), but the Representatives would still have to be elected by the people (i.e. refugees). I also really like the idea of a postwar census and uniting Kentucky and Missouri with other states.