Crusades.

WI: There had never been any crusading expeditions to Syria/Palestine/Asia minor? Perhaps the first one sets out and is defeated somewhere along the way. Then that ends the entire movement. What effects on the Byzantine empire, the Fatamids, the Seljuks, and even Armenians?
 
I think that during the Komnenos years the Crusades were a force multiplier for Byzantium. The batle of Doryleum knocked the Turks back in Anatolia and allowed the Empire to re-take the western third. Also the yearly arrival of a bunch of belligerant psychopaths in Outremer on a regular basis kept the fighting front in Outremer, away from the Byzantine heartland and therefore gave the Empire breathing space. But then it all turned to shit.
 
Middle East countries continues to fight amongst itself for supremacy while the Byzantine Empire decides to secure its eastern borders through the use of diplomacy and supporting both sides through gold and occasional military intervention.

In Europe, the Church is discredited and questions are raised about the greed of the Church which leads to a massive reform of the Church itself (I considered briefly an earlier Reformation, but chose to discard that idea because the factors that led to the reformation were nowhere near as strong as they were when they occurred in OTL).
 
I remember reading somewhere that the Crusades was the main cause of Europeans' increased demands for items from the East... (porcelain, silk, tea, etc)
So maybe no Crusades means delayed discovery of America...?
 
The Crusaders were less a movement of fighting Muslims and more just a way for the broken Carolingian sucessors to distract people from the civil wars. One way or another, they need someone to fight.

Perhaps they head South to Africa or East to Russia. I don't know.
 
The Crusaders were less a movement of fighting Muslims and more just a way for the broken Carolingian sucessors to distract people from the civil wars. One way or another, they need someone to fight.

Perhaps they head South to Africa or East to Russia. I don't know.
I disagree. At least with the first it was far more about religion and taking the Holy Land back than material gain or distraction. I'm not saying those others weren't major parts of experience, but I think Tyerman shows convincingly that religion was the most important motivation (among other motivations).
 
I remember reading somewhere that the Crusades was the main cause of Europeans' increased demands for items from the East... (porcelain, silk, tea, etc)
So maybe no Crusades means delayed discovery of America...?

I'd be highly interested in seeing a TL along these lines.
Perhaps with less Islamic-Christian friction, and either Islamic or Sino colonization of OTL Australia.
 
I disagree. At least with the first it was far more about religion and taking the Holy Land back than material gain or distraction. I'm not saying those others weren't major parts of experience, but I think Tyerman shows convincingly that religion was the most important motivation (among other motivations).
Well, we'll figure out when we build a time machine.
 
Well, we'll figure out when we build a time machine.

Why a time machine? I'd personally go for the machine that rips into alternate universes, absorbs all their history and deposits it onto your computer where it writes itself into a timeline that you can post on here and gain adoring fans :cool:

On that note, I've always suspected Thande of having one...
 
Why a time machine? I'd personally go for the machine that rips into alternate universes, absorbs all their history and deposits it onto your computer where it writes itself into a timeline that you can post on here and gain adoring fans :cool:
Considering all the insane things that have happened in reality, I suspect a lot of people wouldn't notice if someone did that.
 
Why a time machine? I'd personally go for the machine that rips into alternate universes, absorbs all their history and deposits it onto your computer where it writes itself into a timeline that you can post on here and gain adoring fans :cool:

I have to admit that it is a very, very good idea...
 
It was the effect, not the motivation, that a lot of civil war or adventuring on the continent type of things did not happen so much now that all the warrior souls were buggering off to the East

If you look at the Normans BEFORE the First Crusade you can see a pattern for what might be happening if they did not get sucked into going to the Holy Land

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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