Crusader Kings II - Paradox Entertainement (02/12)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Tellus, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Ice34 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Location:
    Kansas
    Two questions:
    1. Do you accept cash, or would you prefer a temple in your name? :p
    2. Any chance of an AGOT submod port?
     
    CaekDaemon likes this.
  2. CaekDaemon The Dragon Commander Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Location:
    Mercia
    Temples will do, but if you really want to make me happy, name your genius heir for me :p

    I'm not too sure how well that'd work, but depending on how things go, I might actually do it. It depends how large the final product actually becomes.

    But there is one thing I'm already building, and I've decided to put a screenshot of into this post as a teaser.

    [​IMG]

    In a nutshell, I'll be doing some changes to the government system as well as to the building tree, and already have a few things built. Consider this a sneak peak of an upcoming dev diary :p
     
  3. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Location:
    Qo'noS, homeworld of the Klingon species
    So, Reformed Hellenic is laughably OP. Hard to get there (I went bankrupt building temples and had to fight off lots of revolts, but I made it by the skin of my teeth), but it comes with pre-installed haruspicy AND astrology, which means it comes with the best society in the game (hermetics) AND a holy order, a monastic society, and a warrior lodge! The warrior lodge is merely OK but comes with a nice trait, though it's nowhere near as powerful as the insanely OP Romuva warrior lodge (which lets you spend renown for free castle upgrades, essentially letting you spam castles and rapidly build them up to a functional level so long as you have renown, which is pretty easy to gain), but even though the Civilized trait is nerfed for the Byzantines (they find it easiest to go hellenic, I've found), that still leaves open a slot for Ancestor Veneration or Seafaring. I was an idiot and took Divine marriage to test out the mechanics, but even then...this religion is OP.

    Also, the moment my vassals got Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan for me, I was able to start sucking up to China. So now my dynasty is half Han and Jurchen ethnically, I'm married to a Chinese princess, and I'm stocked up on kickass artifacts, plus I have the following bloodlines:
    --Stewardship forged bloodline, lets me build special castle buildings
    --Warrior lodge bloodline from my 2nd Restored Roman Emperor, gives slight duel bonus (basic bloodline but appreciated)
    --Alexander bloodline (broke the bank but well worth the bankruptcy and chaos in the long term)
    --Bloodline for restoring the Roman Empire.

    I un-landed the Pope and the HRE is in chaos because they keep losing ground to the Ummayad Empire, the newly-reformed Norse meritocratic sons of ragnarok faith under Fylkir King Starkadr Sigurdrsson of Svibjod (son of Sigurdr Hringr and brother to Ragnarr Lothbrok), the Bohemians who were Slaivc but went Catholic and then imploded into civil chaos, the Fraticelli Germans who clawed their way out, and the Austrasians who pulled out of Charlie's empire just before he declared the HRE.

    Yeah.

    Oh, and some Pecheneg bandit went on an adventure and captured Cologne and he's a Manichean. And Britain is a mess of competing heresies.
     
  4. dmg86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    ah paradox games.
     
  5. wcv215 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    So I've been away from this game for a while, but decided to start up a new game as the Byzantines, and maybe finally get around to actually earning achievments. Only, apparently in the time I've been gone Paradox has instituted and electoral system of succession for some goddamn reason, and I can't even freaking SWITCH either? What. The. Hell?

    Ah well, time to go into the game files and fix this bloody stupid crap and give up on achievements yet again.
     
  6. LordInsane Supporter of the Alliance

    Imperial Elective. It does not work like ordinary elective - for one thing, the Emperor's vote is highly powerful. It is supposed to represent the sort of shenanigans there could be around succession.
     
    Whiteshore likes this.
  7. ByzantineCaesar Secretary-General of URSAL

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    São Paulo, SP, Brasil
    Byzantine succession was never primogeniture, nor even hereditary.

    Btw you won't be able to play with achievements if you edit the game files.
     
  8. LordInsane Supporter of the Alliance

    I think the second paragraph is known. "fix this bloody stupid crap and give up on achievements yet again."
     
    ByzantineCaesar likes this.
  9. wcv215 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    And there’s no option in the game to name a co-Emperor, choose an heir yourself, or have the army declare their general Emperor. So what’s your point?
     
  10. LordInsane Supporter of the Alliance

    You can vote for your preferred heir rather than your eldest (if they qualify, eg. aren't mutilated), the Marshal and commanders under the emperor being valid candidates represent the army being able to declare their general Emperor (this is helped by the fact that high-martial commanders and marshal are set to appeal to the electors). Nothing for co-Emperors, though. Closest, and it is a very distant closest, is that the Despot honorary titles counts as Born in the Purple for the purposes of Imperial elective.
     
  11. ByzantineCaesar Secretary-General of URSAL

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    São Paulo, SP, Brasil
    The point is that Imperial Elective is still a far more accurate succession mechanism than primogeniture or normal elective. I have my issues with it, yes (e.g. commanders having to be landed, which is idiotic), but it’s better than the alternatives.
     
  12. Ice34 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Location:
    Kansas
    Alright, will do. :biggrin:
    I really hope you do. As much as I enjoy AGOT in CK2, the castle building really could do with some improving. It's not terrible, but it could definitely be better.
     
  13. Yorel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    When you say Education should be of consideration, does that mean you're also going to rework Education traits? Or are you just going to have the vanilla education trait play a role on what you can build?

    Just curious, because of your last post showing that you're also doing something about Governments.
     
  14. The Undead Martyr GOP Delenda Est

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Location:
    south of the (Canadian) border

    I've also been working on an early feudal submod for him. Really does need a work through.
     
    frustrated progressive and Ice34 like this.
  15. CaekDaemon The Dragon Commander Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Location:
    Mercia
    A bit of both. Basically, the educational level of the province will act as a general barrier for the complexity of buildings that can be built in the province, symbolizing the amount of higher level educated professionals in the province - skilled craftsmen and architects, literate clerks and accountants, that kind of thing. In a way, it sort of acts as a development "wall", but will also have meaningful effects in the kind of events that will fire in the province itself - things like, say, business success will be more likely in a province where there is a well educated population to support this. The number one source of education in a province will be temple holdings, which (much like in our timeline) serve as temple schools to provide education for the "masses" and will be able to host a large number of improvements such as seminaries, cathedral and monastery schools and, later, universities.

    These will act as a supporting gate to go alongside the existing technology system; the population can be well educated by medieval standards, but if the thing they need hasn't been invented yet, you're not suddenly going to be able to build up a cathedral when your people don't know what a rib vault is even if they have the know how to build it.

    Now, the way this can be implemented is actually rather easy. CK2 has a function in its events to add and remove buildings, with this one being the one that adds shipyards for the Norse...

    Code:
                any_demesne_title = {
                    if = {
                        limit = {
                            tier = BARON
                            location = {
                                port = yes
                                culture = norse
                            }
                            owner = {
                                is_feudal = yes
                                culture = norse
                            }
                            NOT = { has_building = ca_shipyard_1 }
                        }
                        add_building = ca_shipyard_1
    ...and the wiki has documentation about a mirror function, remove_building. If the education level in the province is monitored by modifier (ie, the temple building causes an event to fire to set a modifier in the province like Education: Low), it can be added to holdings without being buildable by the player (you can set buildings to be just flat out impossible to build by having an impossible requirement) as a building that can be set as a requirement for other buildings and as a means for the game to identify different holdings with different levels of education in the province itself, and an event could be used to maintain it automatically by removing the existing buildings and adding new ones in to raise it up or lower it.

    That let's you have literacy on a provincial level, and lets you marry a massive number of buildings to the educational level in the province itself. It's not so much about technology (which I'm taking it as it actually is: technology) but about the abilities of the population itself to carry out the work, and it allows certain buildings to activate or cease functioning without being destroyed when the population no longer has the expertise to operate them, for example.

    I do think I'll add a few extra educational traits, but not to do with the regular educational system, but something to be layered on top - a sort of event system where a son or a daughter can be sent off to a temple school to learn, or go on to university and receive a classical style education in mathematics and art and history, something that doesn't really exist in the current game. That'd be a trait that goes alongside the regular educational system (you could have a university educated martial heir, for example, or a master of learning who only has a temple school education) and acts to strengthen it, whilst also making a good sink in the economy to keep coin flowing in and out of the player's coffers. That's a problem I've noticed in a lot of other building mods where they've added more money faucets but no money sinks to make up the extra income, which causes the economic balance to fall out of whack and leaves too much gold in the economy and lets you easily save into the thousands.

    All this is pretty much doable, and actually rather easy to do. The hard part will be building the background events necessary to monitor the educational system's rise and fall, but that's not actually that difficult in its own right.

    As for how the base game educational traits factor in, there's no real reason why you can't gate certain buildings behind them, as we know the game already has cultural buildings that work on a requirements list of cultures. Here's one:

    Code:
        #Welsh and English Longbow archery range
        ca_culture_saxon_english_1 = {
            desc = ca_culture_saxon_english_1_desc
            potential = {
                OR = {
                    culture = english
                    culture = welsh
                    has_building = ca_culture_saxon_english_1
                }
            }
            is_active_trigger = {
                ROOT = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = english
                        culture = welsh
                    }
                }
            }
            trigger = {
                TECH_CASTLE_CONSTRUCTION = 0
                ROOT = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = english
                        culture = welsh
                    }
                }
            }
            prerequisites = { ca_wall_2 }
            gold_cost = 200
            build_time = 730
            archers_offensive = 0.15
            archers = 60
            ai_creation_factor = 101
            
            extra_tech_building_start = 0.8
        }
    Strip out the is_active_trigger and there's no real reason why the building should be disabled or destroyed when the requirements, and you can actually see how the building sets itself as its own potential requirement so that its existence in the first place is enough to keep it on the map, even if the triggers to make it active aren't met...but if you were to put that has_building there, the building's existence in the first place is enough to keep it active even if you don't meet the triggers to build it.

    That means that you can set a building to require a certain education or trait, but then have that building continue functioning for characters without that trait in the future, similar to how people can have one of the builder bloodlines in CK2 as it is now and build things like the Expanded Supply Depots and have them continue working even if they're not held by someone with the bloodline trait and who can't actually continue building down that line.

    By that, you can tie education into the building system and make it a provincial thing at the same time, making it a lot more logical to pick things like stewardship or diplomacy educations even early in the game where martial would usually be king, simply because of what doors they open in provincial development - rather than there being just one truly viable path, there will a number of different ways to build towards success.

    Good grief, this turned into a developer diary :p