Crusader Kings II - Paradox Entertainement (02/12)

Charlemagne can get quite difficult because he grows very large very fast thanks to the events. From what I remember of all my playthroughs starting as him, you're already at your vassal limit the moment you inherit Middle Francia/Austrasia from Karloman. The Saxon Conquest doesn't help and let's not even talk about the mess you're in for if you choose to invade Italy. Even if you do your best to make your way to an Empire title (the Empire of Francia is easier to do than the HRE BTW), I think you remain in a pretty shaky position for quite some time.

Conclave didn't help in that regards with Council Power factions that pop up and become strong incredibly fast. In other words, you'll be giving a lot of power to your council early on unless you have the balls and/or the means to fight a Civil War. And let's not even forget the fact you start on Gavelkind, which is always a mess... And switching to Elective is actually pretty risky.

Of course, if you manage to overcome all of that, you will find yourself with the means and power to do as good as Charlemagne did OTL if not better. But getting to that part is pretty hard and frustrating...

Maybe this is the Reason why I found him so Frustrating, even on the Easy Difficulty Level? How does One Accomplish the Form Empire Goals?

Maybe Denmark? Less vassals so it probably has less trouble with factions. As for the rest, I don't really venture into that area of the map too much, but as the Mongols you'll be nomadic, and the Russians have seniority succession.

As for factions, you can make use of the Chancellor's "improve relations" task and the Spymaster's "discourage vassal from joining factions" task. Dishing out gifts and honourable titles can also help a bit. And if you have a vassal who unsalvageably hates you you might want to imprison him if you get an excuse to.

The top level liege can't form or join a faction- so a king can only form or join a faction if he's a vassal under an emperor.

I Hope there are lots of Expansion Opportunities in Norway, England and Germany?

If I Buy Jade Dragon and Horse Lords will they Affect my Saved Games? I also have a DLC Called Legacy of Rome but I Think that only Affects the Byzantines.
 
Maybe this is the Reason why I found him so Frustrating, even on the Easy Difficulty Level? How does One Accomplish the Form Empire Goals?
De-jure Empires require you to control 80% of their territory, have at least two Kingdom titles or already be Emperor and at least 600 wealth and 400 piety. Some have a few special conditions: Francia for example requires you to have a Kingdom title that isn't France, Aquitaine, Britanny or Burgundy. When I say it's the easiest way to become Emperor with Charlemagne, it's because you fulfill most of the conditions the moment you inherit Middle Francia from Karloman: this gives you all of the de-jure Empire's territory, two Kingdoms and one of them is Middle Francia/Lotharingia/Austrasia... By that point, all you have to do is basically amass wealth and piety and then boom you're Emperor. The wealth isn't a problem because with all you get, Charlemagne generally gets a pretty sweet income at the start: you might only be slowed down by the need to created Duchies in order to do vassal management. Piety is probably trickier to get but Charlemagne starts with the Zealous trait, which gives you +1 piety per month, and large realms generally have less trouble amassing piety. Of course, to make this easier, you probably shouldn't create Extra Kingdom titles (which isn't necessarilly a good idea early on anyway since you start on Gavelkind succession).

In the 769 start, the HRE is only formable by decision since it technically doesn't exist. However, to make said decision available, certain conditions have to be met:
  • You need to be Catholic or Fraticelli. Charlemagne starts as Catholic so that's easily fulfilled.
  • You must not be the Byzantine Emperor. Charlemagne isn't an unless you are very lucky, he likely never will. Plus, if you're already the Byzantine Emperor, you don't really need the HRE...
  • Your ruler must be an adult, not in prison and not incapable. Unless you're unlucky that's not a problem.
  • You need 1000 prestige. Charlemagne gets there pretty easily and pretty quickly thanks to what he ends up owning.
  • It costs 2 years of wealth. Not that much of a problem given your revenues. Might take some time though.
  • You need to own one Kingdom that belongs to de-jure Francia, Germania, Brittania or Hispania. You're King of West Francia/France from the start so done.
  • There mustn't be a Christian Emperor of Francia, Germania, Britannia or Hispania in existence. Unless it's you. The likelihood of the AI doing that before you get your chance are pretty low, especially in Hispania given the Umayads.
  • You must be King of Italy or Emperor of Italia. If you do the Lombard princess event, you get a claim on Italy and the conquest isn't that hard... Though prepare to suffer from being way over your vassal limit following the conquest. That's one of the complications.
  • You need to have your Religious Head have +100 opinion of you. THAT'S A NIGHTMARE OF A CONDITION TO FULFILL. You need to acquire a lot of positive traits and no traits opposite to the Pope's: that requires a lot of checking to do. You can also bribe the Pope to raise his opinion of you but that generally costs quite a fortune, unless it's right after the Papal conclave... Other monetary problem comes if you choose to support one of your cardinals so that he becomes Pope because it costs money and requries careful management... Last possibility is to crown an Antipope then attack Rome to make your Antipope the Pope: it's extremly risky. But the real kicker is that this will also be extremly dependant on luck and events as Popes are mortal men and can die... So if you don't have fulfilled all the other conditions before making sure of that one, you're in trouble.
In other words, the conquest of Italy and the Pope make that option a nightmare when you play as Charlemagne. You're better off trying your luck at creating the HRE with one of his successors rather than with old Charlie himself.

The last solution is to create a Custom Empire, if you have enabled the rule of course (the other condition is to have the Charlemagne DLC which you obviously do in this case since you can't play Charlemagne without said DLC...). Custom Empires requires you to have 8,000 prestige and a realm size of at least 180: it's pretty easy to do that with Charlemagne given how large his Empire becomes. Alternatively, you need to own three Kingdoms: that's easily done since you can inherit Middle Francia early and then probably will go conquer Saxony or Italy... That being said, it's probably way easier and more convenient to go for the existing de-jure Empires by comparison.
 
I'm not sure why people keep saying getting Charlemagne on good terms with the pope is complicated. Charlemagne just needs to increase his piety (simple enough with his Zealous trait) and prestige (ludicrously easy). Oh, and use the chancellor job that specifically increases other rulers' opinions of him on the pope. And since the pope is a theocratic ruler, there's also a court bishop job that does the same thing. The only real problem is that it take a while, especially if the pope dies in the meantime, but if you form Francia first you should meet the requirements before Charlemagne dies.
 
De-jure Empires require you to control 80% of their territory, have at least two Kingdom titles or already be Emperor and at least 600 wealth and 400 piety. Some have a few special conditions: Francia for example requires you to have a Kingdom title that isn't France, Aquitaine, Britanny or Burgundy. When I say it's the easiest way to become Emperor with Charlemagne, it's because you fulfill most of the conditions the moment you inherit Middle Francia from Karloman: this gives you all of the de-jure Empire's territory, two Kingdoms and one of them is Middle Francia/Lotharingia/Austrasia... By that point, all you have to do is basically amass wealth and piety and then boom you're Emperor. The wealth isn't a problem because with all you get, Charlemagne generally gets a pretty sweet income at the start: you might only be slowed down by the need to created Duchies in order to do vassal management. Piety is probably trickier to get but Charlemagne starts with the Zealous trait, which gives you +1 piety per month, and large realms generally have less trouble amassing piety. Of course, to make this easier, you probably shouldn't create Extra Kingdom titles (which isn't necessarilly a good idea early on anyway since you start on Gavelkind succession).

In the 769 start, the HRE is only formable by decision since it technically doesn't exist. However, to make said decision available, certain conditions have to be met:
  • You need to be Catholic or Fraticelli. Charlemagne starts as Catholic so that's easily fulfilled.
  • You must not be the Byzantine Emperor. Charlemagne isn't an unless you are very lucky, he likely never will. Plus, if you're already the Byzantine Emperor, you don't really need the HRE...
  • Your ruler must be an adult, not in prison and not incapable. Unless you're unlucky that's not a problem.
  • You need 1000 prestige. Charlemagne gets there pretty easily and pretty quickly thanks to what he ends up owning.
  • It costs 2 years of wealth. Not that much of a problem given your revenues. Might take some time though.
  • You need to own one Kingdom that belongs to de-jure Francia, Germania, Brittania or Hispania. You're King of West Francia/France from the start so done.
  • There mustn't be a Christian Emperor of Francia, Germania, Britannia or Hispania in existence. Unless it's you. The likelihood of the AI doing that before you get your chance are pretty low, especially in Hispania given the Umayads.
  • You must be King of Italy or Emperor of Italia. If you do the Lombard princess event, you get a claim on Italy and the conquest isn't that hard... Though prepare to suffer from being way over your vassal limit following the conquest. That's one of the complications.
  • You need to have your Religious Head have +100 opinion of you. THAT'S A NIGHTMARE OF A CONDITION TO FULFILL. You need to acquire a lot of positive traits and no traits opposite to the Pope's: that requires a lot of checking to do. You can also bribe the Pope to raise his opinion of you but that generally costs quite a fortune, unless it's right after the Papal conclave... Other monetary problem comes if you choose to support one of your cardinals so that he becomes Pope because it costs money and requries careful management... Last possibility is to crown an Antipope then attack Rome to make your Antipope the Pope: it's extremly risky. But the real kicker is that this will also be extremly dependant on luck and events as Popes are mortal men and can die... So if you don't have fulfilled all the other conditions before making sure of that one, you're in trouble.
In other words, the conquest of Italy and the Pope make that option a nightmare when you play as Charlemagne. You're better off trying your luck at creating the HRE with one of his successors rather than with old Charlie himself.

The last solution is to create a Custom Empire, if you have enabled the rule of course (the other condition is to have the Charlemagne DLC which you obviously do in this case since you can't play Charlemagne without said DLC...). Custom Empires requires you to have 8,000 prestige and a realm size of at least 180: it's pretty easy to do that with Charlemagne given how large his Empire becomes. Alternatively, you need to own three Kingdoms: that's easily done since you can inherit Middle Francia early and then probably will go conquer Saxony or Italy... That being said, it's probably way easier and more convenient to go for the existing de-jure Empires by comparison.

Is the Empire of Francia [France] Easier to Create than the HRE? Why, oh why, is the Chinese Western Protectorate Unplayable in this Game, even with Jade Dragon, according to my Information?

A good Point on CK II, in my Opinion, is that you can Convert Saved Games to EU IV, so if I reach the Final Date of the Game, which I doubt, I will be able to Carry on with the Saved Game.
 
Is the Empire of Francia [France] Easier to Create than the HRE?
Vastly easier. Especially if you start as Charlemagne since, as I pointed out, you get all of the de-jure Empire as soon as Karloman kicks the buckett. You also get Middle Francia/Lotharingia/Austrasia as your second kingdom title, which fits the condition "must have another kingdom that isn't France, Aquitaine, Britanny or Burgundy". All you need is to sit and wait for the wealth and piety to come in basically.

The HRE requires you to own Italy and to have +100 opinion with the Pope. The first can easily put you over your vassal limit. The second is really luck-based in my opinion.
I'm not sure why people keep saying getting Charlemagne on good terms with the pope is complicated. Charlemagne just needs to increase his piety (simple enough with his Zealous trait) and prestige (ludicrously easy). Oh, and use the chancellor job that specifically increases other rulers' opinions of him on the pope. And since the pope is a theocratic ruler, there's also a court bishop job that does the same thing. The only real problem is that it take a while, especially if the pope dies in the meantime, but if you form Francia first you should meet the requirements before Charlemagne dies.
It might be that I have terrible luck or don't use my councilors enough on the Pope but I've rarely ever had +100 opinion with him. And that's what's required to form the HRE.

Getting the prestige and piety is easy but the bonus you get is pretty low... Every 200 point of prestige, you get +1 opinion and it's capped at +10. Piety works the same: you get +1 for every 50 points of piety and it's capped at +10. So even when you reach 2000 prestige and 500 piety, the overall bonus you're getting is never going to get better than +20.

There is also a problem with specifically focusing your Chancelor and Court Chaplain to raise the Pope's Opinion: the fact that you might need to use them for other means. The Chancelor has especially useful actions to get you like more by your vassals, which increases your stability... Something Charlemagne can need early on as council power factions tend to form nastily quick in my experience. As for the Court Chaplain... Well, if you invade Saxony (which you will likely do), you'll need to convert a lot of pagan provinces. It might also be more useful to raise the opinion of your own bishops rather than the Pope because they pay taxes... Also, depending on what your rules are for Monks & Mystics, you might need to watch out for secret cults and satanists.

More importantly though, it all really feels like it's luck based. Your chancellor and court chaplain have chances of successes... and failure at their job. And it's all dependant on their stats. Councilors with Stats in their 20s are rare... And might not always like you, nor necessarilly be loyal. Not even getting into account that you also have to take strong vassals into account unless you want a -40 opinion penalty with some of them...

In other words, I really feel that Stars need to align sometimes.
 
I still refuse to buy Jade Dragon.

Anyway, the game I let run for two afternoons has become utterly insane. I made an OP Zoroastrian guy to rebuild the Persian Empire, so it's of course a Persia-wank, what with an empire stretching from the Mediterranean to the Indus and the steppe, but then everything north of that and east of France became Magyar territory with a shitload of khanates. And they just recently converted to Chalcedonian Christianity (this is CK2+). And then a Spanish Empire emerged for some reason. :p
 
Thinking about trying a 769 Saxony start. Never tried playing a tribal leader before - well, I've never stuck with it for more than a year or two in-game - so does anyone have any advice? I'd like to stay Norse if possible.
 
De-jure Empires require you to control 80% of their territory, have at least two Kingdom titles or already be Emperor and at least 600 wealth and 400 piety. Some have a few special conditions: Francia for example requires you to have a Kingdom title that isn't France, Aquitaine, Britanny or Burgundy. When I say it's the easiest way to become Emperor with Charlemagne, it's because you fulfill most of the conditions the moment you inherit Middle Francia from Karloman: this gives you all of the de-jure Empire's territory, two Kingdoms and one of them is Middle Francia/Lotharingia/Austrasia... By that point, all you have to do is basically amass wealth and piety and then boom you're Emperor. The wealth isn't a problem because with all you get, Charlemagne generally gets a pretty sweet income at the start: you might only be slowed down by the need to created Duchies in order to do vassal management. Piety is probably trickier to get but Charlemagne starts with the Zealous trait, which gives you +1 piety per month, and large realms generally have less trouble amassing piety. Of course, to make this easier, you probably shouldn't create Extra Kingdom titles (which isn't necessarilly a good idea early on anyway since you start on Gavelkind succession).

In the 769 start, the HRE is only formable by decision since it technically doesn't exist. However, to make said decision available, certain conditions have to be met:
  • You need to be Catholic or Fraticelli. Charlemagne starts as Catholic so that's easily fulfilled.
  • You must not be the Byzantine Emperor. Charlemagne isn't an unless you are very lucky, he likely never will. Plus, if you're already the Byzantine Emperor, you don't really need the HRE...
  • Your ruler must be an adult, not in prison and not incapable. Unless you're unlucky that's not a problem.
  • You need 1000 prestige. Charlemagne gets there pretty easily and pretty quickly thanks to what he ends up owning.
  • It costs 2 years of wealth. Not that much of a problem given your revenues. Might take some time though.
  • You need to own one Kingdom that belongs to de-jure Francia, Germania, Brittania or Hispania. You're King of West Francia/France from the start so done.
  • There mustn't be a Christian Emperor of Francia, Germania, Britannia or Hispania in existence. Unless it's you. The likelihood of the AI doing that before you get your chance are pretty low, especially in Hispania given the Umayads.
  • You must be King of Italy or Emperor of Italia. If you do the Lombard princess event, you get a claim on Italy and the conquest isn't that hard... Though prepare to suffer from being way over your vassal limit following the conquest. That's one of the complications.
  • You need to have your Religious Head have +100 opinion of you. THAT'S A NIGHTMARE OF A CONDITION TO FULFILL. You need to acquire a lot of positive traits and no traits opposite to the Pope's: that requires a lot of checking to do. You can also bribe the Pope to raise his opinion of you but that generally costs quite a fortune, unless it's right after the Papal conclave... Other monetary problem comes if you choose to support one of your cardinals so that he becomes Pope because it costs money and requries careful management... Last possibility is to crown an Antipope then attack Rome to make your Antipope the Pope: it's extremly risky. But the real kicker is that this will also be extremly dependant on luck and events as Popes are mortal men and can die... So if you don't have fulfilled all the other conditions before making sure of that one, you're in trouble.
In other words, the conquest of Italy and the Pope make that option a nightmare when you play as Charlemagne. You're better off trying your luck at creating the HRE with one of his successors rather than with old Charlie himself.

The last solution is to create a Custom Empire, if you have enabled the rule of course (the other condition is to have the Charlemagne DLC which you obviously do in this case since you can't play Charlemagne without said DLC...). Custom Empires requires you to have 8,000 prestige and a realm size of at least 180: it's pretty easy to do that with Charlemagne given how large his Empire becomes. Alternatively, you need to own three Kingdoms: that's easily done since you can inherit Middle Francia early and then probably will go conquer Saxony or Italy... That being said, it's probably way easier and more convenient to go for the existing de-jure Empires by comparison.

How much Prestige is needed to Create France on the Charlemagne Campaign?

It's just fun to go on observe mode and let the game play itself.

I may try this but I like Fighting Wars myself. [not a Real Life One, though; I'm not sure if I could actually Kill somebody if it came down to it.]

I don't think so. Legacy of Rome also adds retinues.

From what I understand, Medieval Kings' Retinues were Bodies of Persons who Claimed their Leige's Protection and were allowed to wear a Kind of Uniform Called a Livery.
 
How much Prestige is needed to Create France on the Charlemagne Campaign?
The Wiki says 600 wealth as a basis. From memory, it's generally around 800 for Charlemagne.

That may seem like a huge amount but Charlemagne's income is generally at +20 gold/month after he inherits Middle Francia. So you can get there in basically four years of in-game time... Unless you're forced to created Duchies for vassal management but Duchies generally cost 100 gold.
 
How does One Fulfill the Become Paragon of Christian Virtue/Buddhist Enlightenment Ambition?

Maybe Denmark? Less vassals so it probably has less trouble with factions. As for the rest, I don't really venture into that area of the map too much, but as the Mongols you'll be nomadic, and the Russians have seniority succession.

As for factions, you can make use of the Chancellor's "improve relations" task and the Spymaster's "discourage vassal from joining factions" task. Dishing out gifts and honourable titles can also help a bit. And if you have a vassal who unsalvageably hates you you might want to imprison him if you get an excuse to.

The top level liege can't form or join a faction- so a king can only form or join a faction if he's a vassal under an emperor.

What Strategy do you Suggest for Playing as Denmark in 1066? I've Noticed that at the start of that Date, the HRE and France are always at War, making it quite Difficult for William to Conquer England as, at that Time, he is only a French Vassal.
 
So I just started a game as Amalfi in the 769 start. Two years in and the Byzantine Empire just converted to gavelkind succession...
 
Hey guys, can anyone here tell me if there is a way to download this game for Windows XP ?, It's been two years since I've been interested in this Game and Game of Thrones Mod, but I'm not sure if it's safe to download to Windows XP.
 
Hey guys, can anyone here tell me if there is a way to download this game for Windows XP ?, It's been two years since I've been interested in this Game and Game of Thrones Mod, but I'm not sure if it's safe to download to Windows XP.

I'm actually surprised Windows XP is still a thing considering that Microsoft no longer Supports it. I'd Upgrade to a newer Version of Windows if I were you before Downloading CKII. Trust me, you won't Regret it.

So I just started a game as Amalfi in the 769 start. Two years in and the Byzantine Empire just converted to gavelkind succession...

What Succession Law do the Byzantines start of with? I am looking to Play as them myself Once I understand the Mechanics of the Game better.

Man immortality adds an interesting angle to the game.

No Man is Immortal, either in CKII or in Real Life. ;-)
 
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