Crusader Kingdom of Egypt

When researching the crusades I've often came across the notion that some crusaders wanted to conquer Egypt, which makes sense considering it would be important to securing Jerusalem.

What would be the best opportunity for the crusaders to successfully do this if at all, how would this kingdom be administrated, what would it's relationship with the Byzantines be like, which of the Italian city states would be influential, which areas would be vital towards its long-term survival, and what would it's culture be like?
 
The problem I've came across is that most crusaders weren't interested in conquering anything outside the holy land. How can we overcome this?
 
When researching the crusades I've often came across the notion that some crusaders wanted to conquer Egypt, which makes sense considering it would be important to securing Jerusalem.

What would be the best opportunity for the crusaders to successfully do this if at all, how would this kingdom be administrated, what would it's relationship with the Byzantines be like, which of the Italian city states would be influential, which areas would be vital towards its long-term survival, and what would it's culture be like?
Best opportunity is when Egypt is ruled by the Fatimids post-1st Crusade. At least then you have Jerusalem as a back up.
 
The conquest will be bloody towards Coptics as well but the rulers will have the same relationship as in Antioch, Edessa as well as Jerusalem with their own non-Catholic Christians.
Not necessarily. If we’re working from a POD before the Siege of Bilbeis, its quite possible for there to be workable relations between Copts and Crusaders. After... not so much, given that my understanding (its been awhile since I’ve read up on this) is that the Copts supported the Crusaders, but got massacred just like the Muslims when Amalric took the city. Change that, and things look drastically different.

Second, if the Crusaders take Egypt, then the entire dynamic of the Crusades is changed to an unrecognizable fashion. In general, we know that, anong the Crusaders themselves, those that lived in the Holy Land tended to go native and be more tolerant of heretics (strictly speaking, the Copts are not heretics, just schismatics) and heathens, while it was the new arrivals from Europe that tended to maintain a very hard line against non-Latin Christians (and those that didn’t hold such a hard line themselves). A Crusader Egypt would likely result in a big initial wave of new Crusaders, but then possibly a self-sustaining population from then on. So, we might see tenser relations early on (compared to a hypothetical world without Bilbeis), but better long term.
 
A pretty minor factor, but one that could easily become relevant, are the various Coptic nations to the south. In the long run they could become the strongest supporters of the Copts within a Crusader Egypt.
 
I'm intrigued at the idea of a Crusader King of Egypt somehow running afoul of the pope, (not exactly difficult to do) getting excommunicated, and then deciding "screw you, I've got a Pope here of my own."
 
How would the demography of Egypt change if a crusader state had been set up in Egypt? Would Islam gain less converts than in OTL in such a scenario?

Would crusader Egypt get immigration from Egypt besides warlord as their companions?

Could a crusader state in Egypt avoid internal revolts overthrowing their rule?

How could this scenario impact the idea of chrisianity and what a christian is?
 
Just have the various crusader snowball in success one after the other, have the Crusade of 1101 be a success and reinforce the first one and so on, if the Crusaders use their resources not to hold ground or retake ground lost inbetween the various expeditions you could have them have power projection over Egypt by the early 13th century by securing the Levant and Anatolia.

How would the demography of Egypt change if a crusader state had been set up in Egypt? Would Islam gain less converts than in OTL in such a scenario?

Would crusader Egypt get immigration from Egypt besides warlord as their companions?

Could a crusader state in Egypt avoid internal revolts overthrowing their rule?

How could this scenario impact the idea of chrisianity and what a christian is?
Islam would probably decline relatively quickly I'd say, at least in Upper Egypt and the areas affected by European settlement and trade, but it would stay relatively strong in the desertic areas of Sinai, Western Egypt and the Eastern Red Sea coast and on top of that the Delta.

Italians mostly, if the naval routes are secured you could have some others but all in all I don't see that much of a pull factor being present at this time.

Surely, who would be revolting anyway and why so early on?

There is so much stuff going on over Catholic Europe that it could really go in many different directions regardless of the survival of the crusader kingdoms.
A pretty minor factor, but one that could easily become relevant, are the various Coptic nations to the south. In the long run they could become the strongest supporters of the Copts within a Crusader Egypt.
Not so sure, the power projection from the South is pretty weak and the nations there were wary of angering the Mamelukes for example, so I don't think they would go much after the Crusader States, which probably have an interest in finding trade routes to the East altenrative to Persia or the Arab traders and the Nubian states with Ethiopia can potentially satisfy that.
 
How would the demography of Egypt change if a crusader state had been set up in Egypt? Would Islam gain less converts than in OTL in such a scenario?

Would crusader Egypt get immigration from Egypt besides warlord as their companions?

Could a crusader state in Egypt avoid internal revolts overthrowing their rule?

How could this scenario impact the idea of chrisianity and what a christian is?
Its my understanding that Islam was still far from the dominant religion demographically in this era. I imagine without he social, political, and economic benefits under a Muslim regime, it would stagnate fairly quickly.
 
Islam would probably decline relatively quickly I'd say, at least in Upper Egypt and the areas affected by European settlement and trade, but it would stay relatively strong in the desertic areas of Sinai, Western Egypt and the Eastern Red Sea coast and on top of that the Delta.
Why would Islam stay strong in the Delta? The Nile delta is the most populous and rich region in Egypt, i imagine the crusaders would be especially intrested in that region.
Italians mostly, if the naval routes are secured you could have some others but all in all I don't see that much of a pull factor being present at this time.
Were not French the largest settlers in the Crusader states?

Also the European crusaders and crusader lords were would they hail from? Mostly France? How would the origin of European warriors and lords impact hte development of Crusader Egypt?

What kind og political system would Crusader Egypt be ruled by? Feudalism?
Surely, who would be revolting anyway and why so early on?
Perhaps the Muslim majority could revolt if they were discontent with the Crusader state.
 
Why would Islam stay strong in the Delta? The Nile delta is the most populous and rich region in Egypt, i imagine the crusaders would be especially intrested in that region.
Because it had the highest % of Muslims of the populated areas, excluding places like Alexandria. This holds true today as well.

Were not French the largest settlers in the Crusader states?
I meant "outside warlords" like you asked.

Also the European crusaders and crusader lords were would they hail from? Mostly France? How would the origin of European warriors and lords impact hte development of Crusader Egypt?
Linguistically probably but overall I don't think it would cause assimilation into the noble culture but more of a intermix, all in all it's hard to have anything other than Romance influence with some minor German and Greek influence with a late pod but you could change things with a early 11th century POD.

What kind og political system would Crusader Egypt be ruled by? Feudalism?
No idea really, Egypt was relatively more centralized historically than most other places so it could possibly work differently, it really depends.

Perhaps the Muslim majority could revolt if they were discontent with the Crusader state.
I guess but by the time rule is consolidated I can't see it succeeding without foreign intervention.
 
The problem I've came across is that most crusaders weren't interested in conquering anything outside the holy land. How can we overcome this?
The second Crusade was very big and it was aimed pretty far away from Jerusalem. Perhaps if the fall of Edessa is somehow avoided that energy could be redirected into squishing the Fatimids like a bug.
 
Perhaps the Muslim majority could revolt if they were discontent with the Crusader state.
Its far from certain that the Muslims were the majority at this point. In fact, it may be their general reaction to the Crusades that finally tipped over the demographic scales. We can be reasonably certain that they were not a majority in the 10th century but they were by the 14th.
 
If the Crusaders prevail in Egypt, might the Copts become like the Maronites, striking a deal to retain structural/liturgical autonomy while accepting papal authority, perhaps like the Coptic Catholic Church which developed later in OTL?
 
What? There were multiple crusades outside the holy land.
I was just remembering a documentary I watched. It made sense to me because the first crusade was advertised as, not a war, but as a "pilgrimage with fighting on the side". It was primarily meant to protect Christians in the holy land and most returned home after that was completed.

The northern and others crusades were started to specifically purge pagans. So they were entirely different circumstances.
 
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