Crown Prince Rudolf & Robert Salvator Pachmann

According to one Robert Pachmann, Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (the suicidal son of Franz Josef and Elisabeth of Bavaria) was his father by a clandestine marriage to the tubercular Maria Antonietta Leopoldina of Habsburg-Tuscany (she was refused as a wife for him as unsuitable - due to her health - by his father). He lobbied long and hard to be acknowledged as the son of Rudolf (whether he hoped of inheriting the Austrian empire IDK). Now Pachmann, in all likelihood, was a cook (or perhaps he really was Rudolf's bastard, the Austrian courts of the 60s certainly thought so), but it got me thinking:

Pachmann a.k.a. Archduke Karl Rudolf Salvator was born on March 7 1883, his "mother" conveniently dying that same year, while his "father" married Princess Stéphanie of Belgium in 1881, although Pachmann claimed a wedding date of January 1 1880 for Rudolf and his Austrian cousin, meaning that Rudolf married bigamously!

Now, what I'm wondering is, what if the emperor had agreed to the marriage between his son and his Tuscan cousin? He could clearly see the girl is not long for this world, and in secret he can make overtures to various houses for a suitable bride, and then when Rudolf is widowered in 1883, he can marry another princess (if he was 'in love' with Antonietta, then his father can insist by saying the dynasty's future depends on it (although OTL FJ refused to sanction a divorce between Rudolf and Stéphanie after it became clear that they couldn't have more children, despite both parties being willing to divorce), so IDK).
Plus, if Pachmann really was Rudolf and Antonietta's son, at least the dynasty is secure - for the moment, at least.
 
I've been thinking a little more about this. Rudolf marrying a nubile girl (as opposed to Stephanie, who at the time the marriage was proposed, had reportedly not yet had her first period), might mean that he has more than one child, however, Antonietta having delicate health, might end up only producing one before making place for her successor.

That said, Léopold II wanted his daughter(s) to marry either Rudolf or Alfonso XII. So with a match being refused with Austria (at least at first, here), he might push Stéphanie towards Madrid. IDK much about Stéphanie's personality except that reportedly she and Rudolf were relatively ill-suited to be matched with one another, and while her father-in-law liked her, her mother-in-law was not impressed, calling her "the ungainly elephant" in one instance, among other not-so-nice names. Considering Belgium's reputation as a "liberal" monarchy in the 1870s/1880s, how would Stéphanie being matched with Alfonso be seen?

And if Stéphanie is unavailable, does Rudolf simply marry the next Belgian princess when widowered, or were there different princesses available in 1884/85 than in '81?
 
No takers? Since I figure even if Rudi still decides to clean the cobwebs out of his brain with projectiles, he at least leaves a son behind, so if he has inherited FJ's work ethic and Sissi/Rudolf's "less conservative" he might make for a decent go of things. Not a Charlemagne or Karl V, but perhaps Carlos III/Alfonso XII rather than a Carlos IV for the Austro-Hungarian Empire of the 20th century. Of course, bonus points if he follows in his Wittelsbach relatives' ffootsteps and becomes useful (a doctor or something, I read once that Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria was encouraged to learn a skill growing up, he chose carpentry)
 
Well, if Rudi's a widower, he might prefer the older sister of Sissi that he turned down for her (fatherhood having a sobering effect, perhaps?)
 
Well, if Rudi's a widower, he might prefer the older sister of Sissi that he turned down for her (fatherhood having a sobering effect, perhaps?)

Do you mean Rudolf or his dad marrying Nene (Helene), Sissi's older sister? Since Sissi outlived Nene (IIRC), and FJ wouldn't have remarried after Sissi''s murder, I can't see that happening. As to Rudolf marrying in 1883/4 to an aunt who's born in 1834, the chances of an heir coming out of her are slim at best
 
I meant Nene going to Rudolf, as planned OTL. Sissi might not want to marry a man who already has a kid (she wasn't the most mature person - not that he was the model of stability, but.....)
 
But I could just be confused (I stay that way, I find it saves time); I don't know a whole lot about this one, only the gossip about his death.
 
Since Wilhelm II (IIRC, I could be confusing fact with fiction) referred to FJ OTL as 'that old dotard' and 'the old fool', might he find himself responding differently to an Austrian crown prince roughly the same age as his own sons?

Also, would Rudolf still commit suicide here? (I know his OTL didn't have much to do with him having a son, more his feeling of uselessness AFAIK, since his father didn't trust him with anything important to do (Queen Victoria and Wilhelm I likewise treated their heirs the same, and neither Edward VII nor Friedrich III turned out the worse for it)). However, assuming that events follow their OTL course, Rudolf committed suicide in 1889 (when his son would have been in the single digits agewise), would his son's education and upbringing have been strongly influenced by FJ?

Plus, Franz Ferdinand and Karl apparently took a preference to the Czechs(?) over the Hungarians, so would Archduke Karl Rudolf do the same (and betray his grandmother's affection for the Hungarians)?

How does having a grandson to step into Rudolf's shoes after Mayerling affect FJ's view of the world?

In addition to this, would there have likely been a different trigger (and when?) to World War I in this scenario?
 
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A few points:

The Emperor has the last say on marriages within the Habsburg family, if he says no the member COULD marry but his wife and children would NOT be considered part of the imperioal family.

Assume that FJ gave his consent to this marriage. And a son is born - he would likely inherit his mothers illness and not live to be emperor ;)

Assume he lives (and is healthy) - this COULD butterfly Rudolphs suicide (and affairs, syphillis???) - Rudolph MIGHT feel obliged to spare his son to be "educated" the way he was.

FJ was not quick to give responsibilities to other men (even to his heirs) - but in the mid run Rudolph would get more and more responsibilities. As Rudolph and Franz Ferdinand were personal friends (and the latter a personal firend of Willy Two). The Monarchy could have developed into a totally different direction (Rudi was sort of Hungarophile).
 
A few points:

The Emperor has the last say on marriages within the Habsburg family, if he says no the member COULD marry but his wife and children would NOT be considered part of the imperioal family.

Assume that FJ gave his consent to this marriage. And a son is born - he would likely inherit his mothers illness and not live to be emperor ;)

Assume he lives (and is healthy) - this COULD butterfly Rudolphs suicide (and affairs, syphillis???) - Rudolph MIGHT feel obliged to spare his son to be "educated" the way he was.

FJ was not quick to give responsibilities to other men (even to his heirs) - but in the mid run Rudolph would get more and more responsibilities. As Rudolph and Franz Ferdinand were personal friends (and the latter a personal firend of Willy Two). The Monarchy could have developed into a totally different direction (Rudi was sort of Hungarophile).

Interesting. So you think the bonds between Austria and Germany might be stronger if Rudolf also makes friends with Wilhelm? Or might his more liberal tendencies draw him towards England or France?
 
Interesting. So you think the bonds between Austria and Germany might be stronger if Rudolf also makes friends with Wilhelm? Or might his more liberal tendencies draw him towards England or France?

The latter no doubt Rudolf was for all intents and purposes pretty stubborn in his liberal beliefs which didn't help the relationship with his father at all.
 
Rudolf might be in a Maximilian situation : TOO liberal for the conservatives and to conservative for the liberals ;)

The personal firendships between royals seldom does prevent the states from being friends and foes.

For Rudolph it would need to have a significant influence on Austrian politics - thats actually hard to imagine.

UNless you completely change history ;)

If for example Rudolfs survival due to a changed lifestyle also changes Sissis fate the whole family dynamic of the Habsburgs will change. IF For example Sissi lives and persuades FJ (she had great influence despite her long absences OTL) to step down from duties (not renouncing the crown, but giving more and more responsibilities over the the Corwn Prince)
 
W
Rudolf might be in a Maximilian situation : TOO liberal for the conservatives and to conservative for the liberals ;)

The personal firendships between royals seldom does prevent the states from being friends and foes.

For Rudolph it would need to have a significant influence on Austrian politics - thats actually hard to imagine.

UNless you completely change history ;)

If for example Rudolfs survival due to a changed lifestyle also changes Sissis fate the whole family dynamic of the Habsburgs will change. IF For example Sissi lives and persuades FJ (she had great influence despite her long absences OTL) to step down from duties (not renouncing the crown, but giving more and more responsibilities over the the Corwn Prince)

Would FJ listen to her in this instance, though? I mean, she persuaded him on the Hungarian question by agreeing to get it on (the outcome of which was her youngest daughter, Valerie), but this would be against everything FJ had learned. Unstoppable force meets the immovable object.
 
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