Crowdsourcing Map Idea

Hello, my name is Violette, and I've been making maps here and there for this site for a couple of years now. I'm rather interested in creating a giant world map, with one pixel being equivalent to an equatorial kilometer. This map would therefor be 40,030 pixels wide and 20,004 pixels high. I'm wondering if anybody would like to do a crowdsourcing project on this, where everyone would take an area of about 100 by 100 pixels/kilometers and create a map of that place. This would take considerable planning, of course, and the pieces may not fit together perfectly, but I think it's a very cool project that would bring this community together in a fun and proactive way.

My plan is to create a google earth file with a grid pattern over it. The grid squares will be labeled, so you can select any grid you want and create a .png file map of that location, and you can choose several grids: there is no limit to how many map sections you can create! There will be some stipulations, like what color scheme is to be used and what not, as well as how thick coastlines will be, and whether we will show rivers and borders, streets and towns. But for now, I'm really just considering it, and if I can get enough people to support this, than I'll see to it about setting this project up.

Please tell me what you all think, and provide any ideas on what can be done to accomplish such a task.
 
I'm interested, but I have no idea how I would go about making such a map.
That said, isn't the end of this trend in basemaps a map with a scale of one to one?
 
I'm interested, but I have no idea how I would go about making such a map.
That said, isn't the end of this trend in basemaps a map with a scale of one to one?

I think the largest map width that we can make without having to use complex or obscure programs to view or assemble would be 50,000 pixels, so one 10,000 shy would be sufficient. There is a limit, and a 1 pixel=1 kilometer would certainly be the near the edge of the envelope. Sure, we could do 50,000 pixels, but then we would lose that easy to follow scaling.

Also, how I plan to do my parts of the map is to create overlays over any grid pattern I pick within Google Earth's program, and from there clean it up in Photoshop and MS Paint. I've done this once to create a decent map of Nauru for a high school project, but I think the point of this idea is that everyone can use whatever method they want to create a grid section.
 
I'm not sure I see exactly what this project could be or look like.
What should be represented? Rivers, forests, coasts, roads, agglomerations, relief, etc.?
 
I'm not sure I see exactly what this project could be or look like.
What should be represented? Rivers, forests, coasts, roads, agglomerations, relief, etc.?

Well, that's why it's still an idea.

I figure it should comprise national borders, primary and secondary subdivisions, maritime claims, rivers, and national colors. I prefer Ashtagon's X2 color scheme, because it is the only scheme that I am aware of that contains enough colors to successfully showcase every current nation on Earth, while at the same time not being overburdened with nonsense apolitical and incredibly imaginary ASB realms, like the new TOASTER scheme (although, to be fair, it does contain useful colors, like separate Luhansk and Donetsk). But, the point of postulating this idea is so that way I can figure out what should be included, so what do you think should be included?
 
Well, the main problem with Ashatagon's scheme is that it have far too many shades and colours to be really readable. Even with the aRCS/RCS system (Core/Autonomous/Influence), it can be hard to really discernate differences, hence regular (if slight) changes of colours*.
It does get even more complicated by the far too great number of "political" colours (not that we don't have that in aRCS/RCS but it's generally a by-product of relevant regional colours, such as Aquitaine/Vichy France) : you have a particular colour for Falkland Islands, for God's sake!.

It's less about the orgy of different and quite similar colours, than it prevents a good geopolitical reading for the benefit having 5 colours for different British colonies.

It may be a good CS for really different (and more simple) maps (while personally, I think TACOS is a safer bet), but unusable for historical maps as far as I'm concerned (it's part of the reasons why aRCS/RCS is still mostly used for OTL maps, eventually).

A good colour scheme should be kept relatively simple, would it be trough sheer recycling**. As an OTL map-maker, I know I wouldn't have much use for a system far too complex for the sake of it.

Anyway.

What should be represented mostly depend of which kind of map we want in first place : if it's to be used as a basemap then it can be kept complex enough to include rivers, inner borders up to departemental/local level with simple outer borders; because readability wouldn't be the priority there, but to provide as much information as possible to map-makers (contrary to a geopolitical map*)
Admttedly you could end up with two basemaps : one administrative, one physical (altough this one would be hard to pull, except if kept simple as following range lines)

*Most of changes in aRCS/RCS are modification of colour shades or exchange of colours between two entities. When colours are added, it's essentially for places as Africa, Americas and a bit of Asia. Europe is basically full.

** The aformentioned Aquitaine/Vichy, or Mercia/Australia and Kithans/Qinq (as sinicized dynasties)

***That should be kept simple, as for identify immediatly the political features : inner borders not more precise than regional level, complex set of outer borders (national, claims, de facto, armistice lines, etc.). The use of CAI-like shades should be important enough to be careful not mixing up too much colours in the pot
 
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In fact, I think I misread the OP. You want a scale of 1km² = 1 pixel and not 10km² = 1pixel?
Will a regional map be even loadable at this point, or too heavy to be usable?
 

Chicxulub

Banned
In fact, I think I misread the OP. You want a scale of 1km² = 1 pixel and not 10km² = 1pixel?
Will a regional map be even loadable at this point, or too heavy to be usable?
That would be an 801 megapixel map, while my laptop can barely handle anything over 160 megapixels.
 
That would be an 801 megapixel map, while my laptop can barely handle anything over 160 megapixels.

But it is possible to view it on a normal, if slightly newer, computer. And if worse comes to worse, we can split it into quadrants for viewing. The first point would be to get such a project out of the hanger first.
 
Well, the main problem with Ashatagon's scheme is that it have far too many shades and colours to be really readable. Even with the aRCS/RCS system (Core/Autonomous/Influence), it can be hard to really discernate differences, hence regular (if slight) changes of colours*.
It does get even more complicated by the far too great number of "political" colours (not that we don't have that in aRCS/RCS but it's generally a by-product of relevant regional colours, such as Aquitaine/Vichy France) : you have a particular colour for Falkland Islands, for God's sake!.

It's less about the orgy of different and quite similar colours, than it prevents a good geopolitical reading for the benefit having 5 colours for different British colonies.

It may be a good CS for really different (and more simple) maps (while personally, I think TACOS is a safer bet), but unusable for historical maps as far as I'm concerned (it's part of the reasons why aRCS/RCS is still mostly used for OTL maps, eventually).

A good colour scheme should be kept relatively simple, would it be trough sheer recycling**. As an OTL map-maker, I know I wouldn't have much use for a system far too complex for the sake of it.

Anyway.

What should be represented mostly depend of which kind of map we want in first place : if it's to be used as a basemap then it can be kept complex enough to include rivers, inner borders up to departemental/local level with simple outer borders; because readability wouldn't be the priority there, but to provide as much information as possible to map-makers (contrary to a geopolitical map*)
Admttedly you could end up with two basemaps : one administrative, one physical (altough this one would be hard to pull, except if kept simple as following range lines)

*Most of changes in aRCS/RCS are modification of colour shades or exchange of colours between two entities. When colours are added, it's essentially for places as Africa, Americas and a bit of Asia. Europe is basically full.

** The aformentioned Aquitaine/Vichy, or Mercia/Australia and Kithans/Qinq (as sinicized dynasties)

***That should be kept simple, as for identify immediatly the political features : inner borders not more precise than regional level, complex set of outer borders (national, claims, de facto, armistice lines, etc.). The use of CAI-like shades should be important enough to be careful not mixing up too much colours in the pot

This is an example of Ashtagon's color scheme. As you can see, it is not very difficult to discern national colors. My problem with TACOS is that it really is a failure. There is nothing else to call a color scheme that purposefully leaves out half the nations of Africa for no other reason than that they are "unimportant." Being called a country is no mean feat, and certainly not unimportant. As an anthropology student, I find it despicable that people will leave out a sovereign nation because they believe it has no value in the modern world and yet add a never ending list of ancient and imaginary entities that actually have no value in the modern world.

cwm_colors_by_neneveh-dalbemb.png
 
This is an example of Ashtagon's color scheme. As you can see, it is not very difficult to discern national colors.
]
Re-read my post: my problem isn't that much the accumulation of various colours (even if it's an issue IMO), is that the system proposes five different shades for each colours for each different situation.
Such used would be unreadable and/or unidentifiable on a worlda+ scale.

Having too much colours and more importantly too much shades for these colours makes a map unreadable. What you show me is a map with each country having its colour, which is as useful as a blank map for readability (too much colour takes away the interest giving colours to point specific situations) : showing the political blocs, influences, etc. requires more subtelty including in the colouring part.
I dare anyone to make a complex use of Uzbek and Kirgiz colours as intended by this colour scheme, meaning using two really close colours with their all five shades without getting confused.

Not that the regular cs doesn't have formatting issues : but I think it avoids much by being abstract enough when it comes to treatment.

As an anthropology student, I find it despicable that people will leave out a sovereign nation because they believe it has no value in the modern world and yet add a never ending list of ancient and imaginary entities that actually have no value in the modern world.
Which shouldn't be sur-compensated by giving anything that moves, or doesn't even moves (5 colours for France, depending on the regime? Seriously?).

Giving that aRCS/RCS roughly have the same number of colour for Africa than TACOS (mostly because they're issued from a same source), I feel personally insulted by this remark as a contributor, as pulling a "dspicable" work. It's probably not your intent, but that's its effect.

I think we had this discussion, or it might be with someone else. In any case, apologies for the redundance : Colour schemes aren't, IMO, about giving countries or cultures what they deserve, but modelling as best as it's possible when it comes to readability, an historical situation.

When in the 2015 map, I painted Gabon with the "influence shade of french colour" it's not about making a point about Gabon having no value, but about political situation.
When in the 814 map, I gave a colour to Kanem because, in the XIth century, we kinda need a Kanem shade to point their influence on Kotoko city-states : it's not a point about Kanem having more value than Sao, but just I can't think of an use for a Sao colour except for the sake giving it a colour.

It's as I said above : rather than having a sole colour for each thing under the sky, we recycle these. Modern Morroco have as little to do with Mauri than Italy have to do with Roman Empire, or Egypt with the pharaonic realms, I agree. But there's only so much colouring mixes you can do, and it allows a relatively easy identification ("oh, this kind of brown is about a North African native entity", "oh, this kind of brown indicate a Roman/Romance Italian entity", "oh, this kind of beige indicate a Nile-based entity")

I mean, Alex and I debated a lot about what to add on Africa and Americas, in the same time we removed some European colors that basically were as much relevant than giving Soa civilization its own color.
The result is, IMO, relatively balanced if perfectible (keeping in mind that half of basemaps are focusing on Europe). I stress perfectible : we welcome any discussion on the topic, because frankly, we don't know that much about neither he (I can testify for this) or me (I can testify for this as well, but it's obviously less credible) are open to changes and proposals.

Of course, if what we do is just pointed as despicable without any kind of discussion or point on why we should add a specific colour for, for a non-european exemple that appears on maps, Igbo people...

But really, I don't think the solution to keep and readability and historical relevance is to simply just add colours and shades like there was no tommorrow because it ends as being unusable : I mean, it's unused. I never saw an OTL map really using it.
It's not at all an attack on Ashtagon's work : I don't really care this much. But it's just so blatantly unfair and uncalled when we see peoples that doesn't intervene, even less participate, to OTL map-making telling us out of blue that our work is s**t because a mess of colours and shade is technically better (if unused) that stuff that we pass time to work on.

(-rant off-)
 
I find it despicable that people will leave out a sovereign nation because they believe it has no value in the modern world and yet add a never ending list of ancient and imaginary entities that actually have no value in the modern world.

I would point out that the reason color schemes exist is as a reference point for those same ancient and imaginary entities, so that people know what they are on alternate history maps. The modern-day map can be colored whatever you want, and people will still get it just fine, but if you're making (god forbid) an alternate history map, people won't know what they're looking at straight away and so will need some points of reference.

To say that nations were left out because the makers of color schemes "believed they had no value in the modern world" is just false. Nations are left out of color schemes because otherwise the schemes would get ridiculously long and it would become impossible to differentiate between nations with slightly different colors.

The "never ending list of ancient and imaginary entities that actually have no value in the modern world" definitely has value here, though. The definition of alternate history is literally the manipulation of ancient (i.e. historical) events/entities to create imaginary events/entities.
 
...I just use color schemes for palettes, really. If it has guidelines like location or government type, I tend to follow them.
 
Back to the TOPIC. Does anybody have any relevant ideas on how such a crowdsourcing map could be accomplished?
 
I sat we should start out with 1px wide coastlines with filled corners depending on how fiddly the coastline is.

Rivers would likely be done along with the rest of the map- they're a Natural feature, and possibly a topographic map along with the main map. This, followed by borders plus, possibly, roads and cities.
 
I sat we should start out with 1px wide coastlines with filled corners depending on how fiddly the coastline is.

Rivers would likely be done along with the rest of the map- they're a Natural feature, and possibly a topographic map along with the main map. This, followed by borders plus, possibly, roads and cities.

1 pixel coastlines is a definite, and rivers wouldn't be a bad touch, although I think they could be covered by coastlines to some extent. Cities would be a good idea, but they'd have to be specific, i.e. a population over 50,000 or something. I think that nothing should be labeled directly, however: no "New York City" or "Blue Nile River" written on the map. The purpose of this map is after all to have basically the largest map that can be easily editable by all to fit specific purposes, an XBAM base, if you will. I love seeing people post massive and detailed maps of Europe or specific countries here on the forums, so I just thought being able to have the whole world displayed on such a scale would be awesome. Plus, it's a way for everyone to work together and actually be apart of a larger forum project, which sadly doesn't happen very often.
 
This is an example of Ashtagon's color scheme. As you can see, it is not very difficult to discern national colors. My problem with TACOS is that it really is a failure. There is nothing else to call a color scheme that purposefully leaves out half the nations of Africa for no other reason than that they are "unimportant." Being called a country is no mean feat, and certainly not unimportant. As an anthropology student, I find it despicable that people will leave out a sovereign nation because they believe it has no value in the modern world and yet add a never ending list of ancient and imaginary entities that actually have no value in the modern world.

Look, I agree that there's not really any need for colours for Atlantis or what have you, but on the other hand let's take the example of Djibouti:

It exists solely because the French wanted a port in the area, purchased some land and then held it until after the independence of Somalia meaning it wasn't merged with British and Italian Somalilands. In most universes- ones where there's no colonisation, or the French are able to get a better port, or they lose in a war against Italy/Britain or decolonisation happens differently or France retains more small colonies- Djibouti isn't going to exist.

Now of course Djibouti does exist in the present, but that's pretty much all it does. It doesn't have any influence over her neighbours, or send troops abroad, or claim the territory of her neighbours. It's basically just sitting there being inoffensive and minding its own business. Most maps with a colour for Djibouti would just be colouring in Djibouti to tell you 'it's Djibouti', and frankly the resources just aren't there to have a state based in Djibouti which does all those sort of things while still being realistically called Djibouti. Fundamentally a colour for Djibouti doesn't add any information, and just provides a visual distraction from other areas where the colour is being used to show information. Just existing in the present is a very poor standard for having a colour because it implies that if, for example, Lesotho voted next year to join South Africa then there's an argument to make that Lesotho should retroactively be stripped of her colour in all previously completed maps because that's the only criteria you were using.

The argument applies anywhere of course- we don't need colours for Monaco, St. Kitts and Nevis, the Pattani Sultanate or an independent Rhode Island any more than we need them for Djibouti

I sat we should start out with 1px wide coastlines with filled corners depending on how fiddly the coastline is.

Rivers would likely be done along with the rest of the map- they're a Natural feature, and possibly a topographic map along with the main map. This, followed by borders plus, possibly, roads and cities.

Rivers are a definite must- should be a different colour from coastlines and lake shores for easy editing as well.
 
Look, I agree that there's not really any need for colours for Atlantis or what have you, but on the other hand let's take the example of Djibouti:

It exists solely because the French wanted a port in the area, purchased some land and then held it until after the independence of Somalia meaning it wasn't merged with British and Italian Somalilands. In most universes- ones where there's no colonisation, or the French are able to get a better port, or they lose in a war against Italy/Britain or decolonisation happens differently or France retains more small colonies- Djibouti isn't going to exist.

Now of course Djibouti does exist in the present, but that's pretty much all it does. It doesn't have any influence over her neighbours, or send troops abroad, or claim the territory of her neighbours. It's basically just sitting there being inoffensive and minding its own business. Most maps with a colour for Djibouti would just be colouring in Djibouti to tell you 'it's Djibouti', and frankly the resources just aren't there to have a state based in Djibouti which does all those sort of things while still being realistically called Djibouti. Fundamentally a colour for Djibouti doesn't add any information, and just provides a visual distraction from other areas where the colour is being used to show information. Just existing in the present is a very poor standard for having a colour because it implies that if, for example, Lesotho voted next year to join South Africa then there's an argument to make that Lesotho should retroactively be stripped of her colour in all previously completed maps because that's the only criteria you were using.

The argument applies anywhere of course- we don't need colours for Monaco, St. Kitts and Nevis, the Pattani Sultanate or an independent Rhode Island any more than we need them for Djibouti

I really am sick and tired of you always critiquing my maps as a waste of colors, time, energy, or that this border is wrong here, or that color is off by one hue there. Unless you're going to contribute something useful to this idea, please bugger off! Oh, and here's a little payback for all of the useless complaining and trolling you've forced me to endure for the past two years:

THE WORLD ACCORDING TO ALEX RICHARDS:
the_world_according_to_alex_richards_by_neneveh-darosdn.png

SORRY, BUT IF YOU AIN'T ON HERE, YOU AIN'T WORTHY OF EXISTENCE.
 
I really am sick and tired of you always critiquing my maps as a waste of colors, time, energy, or that this border is wrong here, or that color is off by one hue there. Unless you're going to contribute something useful to this idea, please bugger off! Oh, and here's a little payback for all of the useless complaining and trolling you've forced me to endure for the past two years:

THE WORLD ACCORDING TO ALEX RICHARDS:
the_world_according_to_alex_richards_by_neneveh-darosdn.png

SORRY, BUT IF YOU AIN'T ON HERE, YOU AIN'T WORTHY OF EXISTENCE.

Thanks very much for completely strawmanning my argument.

I have never stated that Djibouti or any of the rest of those countries have no right to exist- the very post you quoted specifically describes it as 'a country that's just sort of there not causing any offence to anyone' I mean it's a completely colonial creation that wouldn't exist in most TLs, but then so's Liberia, or the DRC, or Kenya.

But the simple fact is existence isn't enough to get a colour- Zambia has been an independent state since 1964. At best, if you go back to the establishment of NW Rhodesia, you've got about 130 years where it's been a thing.

The Republic of Siena lasted about 3 times as long, Gwalior State for 180 years and the Empire of Kong for about the same and I could make bloody good arguments for just about all of them needing colours if I really wanted to, but at some point you have to draw a line or your map ends up a mess. So we have guidelines, we have criteria, we have considerations. We take disjointed territory, foreign influence and territorial claims into account, and even then you still have to miss some cases out. So yes Gwalior doesn't get a colour, nor does Siena, or Johor, or an Empire so famous for it's riches they named an entire fictional mountain range after it, but neither does Djibouti, because I can think of at least a dozen states in African history right now which would need a colour more than them.

And as for not contributing- certainly since work started I've not been able to do anywhere near as much as I used to, but let me direct your attention to this:

1885-png.283132


I spent 18 fucking months on this map, mostly on Africa. I trawled through dozens of websites for even the smallest scrap of information to establish if a name on a map was an actual state or just a loose collection of polities or even a nomadic peoples. I spent weeks pouring over Mid-19th Century transliterations of native names in West Africa IN GERMAN (a language I hasten to add I am nowhere near fluent in) to try and work out what the hell was actually going on in the Niger basin. And then when all that was done I went back and made further corrections because I found better sources on West Africa. And I've got a file labelling every single one of the 150-odd colonies, states, dependencies and territories on that map, many of which have histories stretching back hundreds of years through bewildering sequences of mergers, divisions, takeovers, coups and religious change.

So don't you dare tell me I don't care about a state just because it's not got a colour.
 
...

OK I think that was rather more aggressive than I intended.

It's just...

I keep on seeing people making suggestions for larger and larger basemaps- and maybe they'll come in useful- this map could be great for regional ones for example- or maybe they'll not.

But at the same time I've seen the numbers of people contributing to the historic basemaps dwindling over the years.

At this point in time, there's me, there's @LSCatilina and there's a handful of others who do occasional work. And heck, I'm more in the latter category with everything else (though believe me there's been a lot of PM conversations on Medieval coastlines and the like). It's kind of demotivating you know?

So, being completely constructive, and this isn't addressed to you in particular @Neneveh but just to anyone looking at this thread, and it isn't meant to be a replacement for this project, or telling you that it's a bad idea to do an editable basemap this size or anything like that- if you all want to just ignore this then that's fine.

But, well...

here.

We've got a load of 20th and 21st Century worldas on the wiki- probably need some updates themselves but most of them are relatively recent.

And we've got a project to create some historical QBAMs just starting.

No trawling through medieval treaties to get suzerainties right, no searching university libraries for a decent atlas of South East Asian history, no scouring academic articles for information about whether such-and-such native American group can be accurately considered a settled people.

Just a period with lots of information online, which a lot of people would use.

If anyone looking at this wants to help with some of these, you'll be very welcome. If not, no big deal.
 
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