Cross of Fire, Hammer of Iron

[Burton K Wheeler]

Inspired by Faeelin's Germany Falls, 1940 thread, I plan on starting a new timeline. The POD is that instead of sitting out the February 1934 crisis, Francois de La Rocque's Croix de Feu participates in the riots and the Radical Socialist government fails to form the Popular Front. The right-wing parties instead form a coalition government led by de La Rocque.
This nationalist France is much more aggressive in dealing with the growing threat from Nazi Germany. Currently, I'm planning on doing away with the Night of the Long Knives and Hitler taking the offices of both President and Chancellor, but that part is open to change.
Whatever happens to Hitler in 1934, by 1939 (at the latest), he is completely out of the picture after some kind of war between France, its allies, and Germany.
Stalin's Russia, meanwhile, has been expanding slowly at the expense of its neighbors, including clashes with the Japanese in Mongolia and expansion towards the Balkans and Persia. By 1942, the Russians launch an invasion of Poland and other states allied with France and Britain, triggering WWII.
As I said, I have only the bare bones of this scenario for now. I don't have nearly the knowledge of the interwar period that I should, and would appreciate knowing of any books or anything that would increase my knowledge. Collaborators for timeline development are also more than welcome.

 

[HueyLong]

I was under the impression that many of the French Fascists were pro-German, and more internationalist than their Italian or German Counterparts.

Although I'm unsure on the Croix De Feus position, many other French Fascists wanted cooperation with Germany, for economic prosperity, pan-European nationalism and the containment of Bolshevism. It could simply lead to a Germany being persuaded by a generous France to drive East, quickly.

From Fascism in Europe, BTW.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

I was under the impression that many of the French Fascists were pro-German, and more internationalist than their Italian or German Counterparts.

Although I'm unsure on the Croix De Feus position, many other French Fascists wanted cooperation with Germany, for economic prosperity, pan-European nationalism and the containment of Bolshevism. It could simply lead to a Germany being persuaded by a generous France to drive East, quickly.

From Fascism in Europe, BTW.

The French right wingers, at least before the crisis in 1934, weren't particularly pro-Nazi. The organizations that replaced Action Francais and Croix de Feu after 1934 were very pro-Nazi, and mostly founded by former Communists.
Yes, you're correct about where I'm going with the French/German relations. I'm currently leaning towards having Hitler fail to take complete power, and the SA becoming a larger organization. The late 30's French intervention in Germany will be at the behest of the 'legitimate' government, and opposed not by the Army but by the SA and the Nazis.
The cornerstones of the late 30's Franco/British/Italian(*) anti-Soviet alliance will be Poland and Czechoslovakia. I don't see Germany being allowed to rearm until the situation gets desperate.

 

[Thande]

Well it's a great title, anyway

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Well it's a great title, anyway

And that's the most important thing, right? I think one of the many reasons my Roman timeline died in the cradle was my failure to come up with a name for it at all. That and it was similar but inferior to Dominus' "Historia Mundi".

 

[Homer]

Inspired by Faeelin's Germany Falls, 1940 thread, I plan on starting a new timeline. The POD is that instead of sitting out the February 1934 crisis, Francois de La Rocque's Croix de Feu participates in the riots and the Radical Socialist government fails to form the Popular Front. The right-wing parties instead form a coalition government led by de La Rocque.

What about letting Hitler win the 1932 presidential elections? Thus he would be president in 1934. Additionally, I think an earlier Nazi-victory would help right-wing French parties: fear of a new German threat for the Liberals and the "good example" of another right wing party for the right-wingers...

 

[Max Sinister]

And who'd win then in France? I'd bet on the left parties.

 

[Homer]

And who'd win then in France? I'd bet on the left parties.

Why? In case of a foreign threat, people would support a "strong leader" or at least a strong government, a hard hand... we all know those citations. And we usually think of a conservative/right government when talking in such a way. That a constant in politics. For example when faced with international islamistic terrorism, conservative parties all over the world say, the leftists are to "weak and soft". I think the same would work in France.

 

[Max Sinister]

You may think of liberals and modern politicians in general. At that times, the left was different, and especially ready for a fight with the reactionaries / fascists. FDR was left (at least for the US POV), but no bad leader either.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

A couple questions about European politics at the time that online sources aren't in-depth enough to answer.
How would a rightist revolution in France come about, exactly? I.E., what would be the mechanism for establishing a Fourth Republic? Would it be possible to just have a recall election as in Britain?
Right now, I'm probably going to keep the Nazis in Germany internally disunited between the Rohm/S.A. faction and the Goering/Goebbels/Himmler faction and eliminate the Night of the Long Knives. Any suggestions as to how exactly to do that? Hindenberg will probably die or resign as OTL, who should be his successor?
Any creative ideas as to what exactly happens in 1934?

 

[Homer]

You may think of liberals and modern politicians in general. At that times, the left was different, and especially ready for a fight with the reactionaries / fascists.

True.

A left-wing government in France would be willing to stop the Nazis, too.

But we want a right-wing France here. And I still think that the French would rather elect a right/conservative government to go for a new war then electing a leftist one. I just can't see a majority of French saying that when threatened by Germany again, they'd need some social democrats, socialists and communists in charge to defend the country. Although those would do it. They'd rather pick some nationalists, conservatives and former officers, which were conservatives. In most countries they voted conservative when threatened by a foreign threat, or at least moderate left and "proven", as FDR. This is one reason why Bush won its elections, or Reagan, or Eisenhower, I think.

 

[HueyLong]

You may think of liberals and modern politicians in general. At that times, the left was different, and especially ready for a fight with the reactionaries / fascists. FDR was left (at least for the US POV), but no bad leader either.

The French left was blamed for military cuts and appeasement- they generally did not have a diplomatic hardline (even against reactionaries/fascists), and disliked expensive standing armies.

 

[Homer]

The French left was blamed for military cuts and appeasement- they generally did not have a diplomatic hardline (even against reactionaries/fascists), and disliked expensive standing armies.

So more active/aggressive/earlier German Nazis/Nationalists would rather induce a rightist reaction in France, right?

 

[Condottiero]

What about the spanish civil war? Maybe the threat of a communist Spain would make France and Germany closer.

 

[El Berto]

What about the spanish civil war? Maybe the threat of a communist Spain would make France and Germany closer.

I think in this scenario a fascist France would even send troops to support Franco.

 

[Homer]

I think in this scenario a fascist France would even send troops to support Franco.

Probably. A common enemy for both would rather enlarge cooperation then speed up confrontation.