cringey old thread please delete
- Thread starter Aloha
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I suppose Communist Finland could work out (in a National-Communist way, that is separated from the Russians' territorial expansions and concentrated on local Finns' desires for a Communist Future), also a Communist Hungary could work if the local Right-wing leaders like Gömbös (nicknamed "Gömbelini" (a play on Mussolini+Gömbös) and Imrédy were deposed from power at an earlier date, and Szálasi (a man who was technically in love with Hitler and Nazism) never came to power.
A main difficulty in Central-Eastern European countries was that these countries continued to look at themselves as part of the "West" even after WW2. For example even in 1948, a year before Mátyás Rákosi imposed hard-line Stalinism in Hungary, Hungary felt much closer to France, Britain, and the USA, than to the Soviet Union. Free-market policies were allowed, American movies were freely shown, and there was a large degree of religious and multi-party freedom.
Even in the Czech Republic, despite there being much enthusiasm towards Marxism in politics, most people campaigned for a kind of "Western Communism" that would align them more with the revolutionary youth of France than with the Soviets.
A main difficulty in Central-Eastern European countries was that these countries continued to look at themselves as part of the "West" even after WW2. For example even in 1948, a year before Mátyás Rákosi imposed hard-line Stalinism in Hungary, Hungary felt much closer to France, Britain, and the USA, than to the Soviet Union. Free-market policies were allowed, American movies were freely shown, and there was a large degree of religious and multi-party freedom.
Even in the Czech Republic, despite there being much enthusiasm towards Marxism in politics, most people campaigned for a kind of "Western Communism" that would align them more with the revolutionary youth of France than with the Soviets.
The strongest possible case doesn't involve replicating the Soviet experience in as many discrete states as possible, but rather a success of proletarian internationalism, something both social democrats and communists in this period professed to. Many social democrats believed that the impulse to imperialist war could be stopped by not repeating the march to nationalist war hysteria as had occurred in the opening days of World War 1, and communists wished to enact a program of revolutionary defeatism where working class resistance to the war effort on both sides would transform an interimperialist war into civil wars.
Comintern (or whatever International Communist Alliance): Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Poland, USSR, Italy, Chinese Communists
Allies: United States, Great Britain, France, Hungary, Japanese Empire, Chinese Nationalists, Spain
I mean it really depends on the butterflies and what potential alignments you want. Post WWI there were significant Communist insurrections across Europe. If you play it absolutely ideally for the Communists, anywhere from Portugal to Russia could become communist from 1918-1939 (or whenever WWII starts). Most likely cases being USSR (obviously), Germany, former Austro-Hungarian Empire, France, and Italy. These nations suffered massively during WWI and where at their most unstable points.
Allies: United States, Great Britain, France, Hungary, Japanese Empire, Chinese Nationalists, Spain
I mean it really depends on the butterflies and what potential alignments you want. Post WWI there were significant Communist insurrections across Europe. If you play it absolutely ideally for the Communists, anywhere from Portugal to Russia could become communist from 1918-1939 (or whenever WWII starts). Most likely cases being USSR (obviously), Germany, former Austro-Hungarian Empire, France, and Italy. These nations suffered massively during WWI and where at their most unstable points.
That's conceivable only if France is liberated by the Soviets. https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...viet-not-western-forces.464536/#post-18670981
There is not URSS but German Democratic Republic after 1919 which expands the revolution into Hungary (Bela Kun survives), Italy (Mussolini never goes Fascist) and Spain.
The Spartakusbund doesn't remain a faction of USPD for that long. Instead, they form a communist party in 1918 before (or shortly after) the november revolution begins. A unified program is created that openly advocates for a council republic and states that socialism can only be created through the continuation of the revolution (i.e. expropriation of the burgeoisie, establishment of a proletarian democracy, abolishion of the military and the status of civil servants in it's burgeois form, etc.). Organized in one party, the revolutionary socialist movement has a lot more possibilities when it comes to agitation and propaganda. The supporters of a socialist council republic , instead of beeing splintered over many different factions (in OTL there were supporters of a council republic within the SPD, USPD and Revolutionäre Obleute, but they were disorganized), actually work together. In the end they manage to spread class consciousness way more effective than in OTL and gain a majority in the Reichsrätekongress (it was a lot more of a close call than the final result makes it seem. In the night before the voting on this issue, Ebert send his men into allmost all factories of Berlin, spread lies about the revolutionary socialists, made empty promises and even outright bribed deputies to vote for him. At the same time, people like Liebknecht had very limited possibilities to spread their ideas, and they were relatively unknown untill after the november revolution had begun). The forces of reaction gather and there is a right wing coup (similiar to the OTL Kapp Putsch but more powerfull and with the support of the SPD leadership). Yet a general strike defeats it. Freikorps continue to tyrannize the people for another couple of months, but they're disorganized after the failed coup and the expropriation of their backers and so are eventually crushed by the revolutionary army. The Reichsrätekongress gathers once again, declearing their loyalty to the Free Socialist Republic or Germany that Liebknecht had decleared. Karl Liebknecht is furthermore elected as the chairman of the Zentralrat der Sozialistischen Republik Deutschlands. A new Germany has been born. One of the first actions of the new government is to send material support and volunteers to the Bolsheviks in Russia.
The funny thing about the november revolution is that the absolute majority of the people in general (and the workers specifically) wanted socialism. And the SPD, USPD, Spartakusbund and Revolutionäre Obleute all promised to construct socialism in Germany. Yet Ebert and his men never intended to hold their promise. They decleared that socialism could be reached through the establishment of a burgeois-democracy, and many people believed him. In the end the german workers got capitalism with a few more concessions than in, say, France or Britain.
The funny thing about the november revolution is that the absolute majority of the people in general (and the workers specifically) wanted socialism. And the SPD, USPD, Spartakusbund and Revolutionäre Obleute all promised to construct socialism in Germany. Yet Ebert and his men never intended to hold their promise. They decleared that socialism could be reached through the establishment of a burgeois-democracy, and many people believed him. In the end the german workers got capitalism with a few more concessions than in, say, France or Britain.
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Communists take over germany and execute Hitler in 1933.
in 1936, a communist uprising accours in france.
In 1939, Germany and the USSR invade poland. They then send support to the French communists and republican Spain.
Kim has a revolution in Korea and ith soviet help, he invades Japans main islands. The war lasts a decade, ending when Mao tse tung wins in china and joins.
Now, this was a preview, you can go in way deeper detail… i might do that one day.
in 1936, a communist uprising accours in france.
In 1939, Germany and the USSR invade poland. They then send support to the French communists and republican Spain.
Kim has a revolution in Korea and ith soviet help, he invades Japans main islands. The war lasts a decade, ending when Mao tse tung wins in china and joins.
Now, this was a preview, you can go in way deeper detail… i might do that one day.
History Learner
Banned
How do Communists win in Germany when they only managed 10% at their best showing? How is their a Communist Revolution in Korea when the Japanese had suppressed the Communists to the point they had fled to the USSR; further on this one, how do the Soviets construct a large enough Pacific Fleet to allow for an invasion of the Home Islands given the IJN is a top three Naval power?