Crimson Skies

[freodhoric]

Well I wonder what would jet engine airplane would do to their world probably end the piracy because the speed would give law enforcement a crucial advantage.

I seem to remember that an airplane (Hughes Bloodhawk?) had an airframe designed for a more powerful engine than any in production at the time. I thought that this was intended to pave the way for introduction of jets.

Jets would give authorities an edge for a few months, until the pirates got them too. Some pirates have official backing. Columbian corps, esp. Fairchild, are noted for selling to anyone. Pirates will steal some, and build others. The pirates can get jets one way or another. They could even outmatch some governments. I don't think the Collective, Lakota, or most militias can afford jets. I think WWII will break out before jets are widespread, which'll give the pirates some breathing room.

Yea I knew other means of transporation were around but they seem to all eclipse by the all mighty airplane

Quite true. That starts realistic, gets exaggerated for the cool factor, and then is emphasized due to the nature of the game.

I've always wondered how common planes really are. Sometimes it seems like there's one in every barn.

 

[Redem]

Jets would give authorities an edge for a few months, until the pirates got them too. Some pirates have official backing. Columbian corps, esp. Fairchild, are noted for selling to anyone. Pirates will steal some, and build others. The pirates can get jets one way or another. They could even outmatch some governments. I don't think the Collective, Lakota, or most militias can afford jets. I think WWII will break out before jets are widespread, which'll give the pirates some breathing room.

.

Well yea but Militias and Pirate probably have the same level of financial range, therefore it would be hard for the pirates to keep their jet after they are down.

Well WWII should be going in rather interesting fashion, Although it seem quite oblivious that while the Allied have some lost they still have the upper hand as they have somes friends in the America while Axis have none.

Well they don't seem to be that much of airplane (but more than OTL for sure) I'd say it would be in the range of people having a luxury car or something.

 

[Faeelin]

Well WWII should be going in rather interesting fashion, Although it seem quite oblivious that while the Allied have some lost they still have the upper hand as they have somes friends in the America while Axis have none.

I dunno. This is why I found this game so depressing, though it was a blast. In a few years, it'd be ruined by the Nazis and Japanese.

Although I admit in the battles gainst Germans in New York, I was a bit happy with the line "when you hit the ground, tell them Nathan Zachary and America sent you!"

 

[freodhoric]

Jets could totally outclass zeppelins. The jets could move too fast for the turrets to track, leaving zeppelins defenseless.

Well yea but Militias and Pirate probably have the same level of financial range, therefore it would be hard for the pirates to keep their jet after they are down.

Depends on the pirate. The more elite pirates would have no problem. It would doubtless thin the herd, and put more pressure on the remaining pirates. Many would become privateers.

Well WWII should be going in rather interesting fashion, Although it seem quite oblivious that while the Allied have some lost they still have the upper hand as they have somes friends in the America while Axis have none.

ISA is definitely a Nazi ally, and i think the Maritimes Provinces will take wartime as an opportunity to seize the Northumberland Association and attack the Atlantic Coalition, making them a de facto enemy to the Alliance. Texas will do the same with Louisiana, though will have even less interest in events in the rest of the world. The Empire State will be a de facto Allied power due to its mutual antagonism with the ISA and Maritimes, though it will remain officially neutral. Dixie will be an interesting case because it has strong ties with both the ISA and Britain. I doubt it will survive WWII intact. Hollywood seems set to be allied with the ISA, so Pacifica will become Allied. Alaska will be a battleground between Red and White Russians, Imperial Japanese, and local militias. I think i need to do a map now.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Maybe we should do a fan version of the official 'canon' Crimson Skies universe. Perhaps North America isn't the only place that balkanized?

 

[Redem]

Maybe we should do a fan version of the official 'canon' Crimson Skies universe. Perhaps North America isn't the only place that balkanized?

Well maybe not balkanisation but rather a more globalize Sky Piratery with various consequence on world politic.

Essentially the Balkanize america probably was a way to have a carabean esque enviroment to the game.

Maybe Pirated raid in the Atlantic sponsorised by Britain and Germany

Piracy in order to force decolonization

 

[freodhoric]

Maybe we should do a fan version of the official 'canon' Crimson Skies universe. Perhaps North America isn't the only place that balkanized?

Russia, also. Started with Red/White civil war. Then Stalin rises to power and his opponents try to take him down, from which the Politburo collapses. Then a brief period with warlords ruling much of the country (more than two dozen states). Stalin is still in the game, and has reunified much of the country. Alaska is also in this as Whites have moved there and rule large parts, though unofficially.

And Spain is in a civil war also, a bit like OTL.

Mexico is intact, though most of the country is ruled by warlords and dons. Several warlords have tried to secede, most notably General Gonzalo Escobar in Sonora in '29. Argentina is mentioned as being a trading partner with Mexico.

Most of what i'm telling you, i get from The Airman's Gazetteer. The above is almost all that is in about Russia. Britian, France, Germany, Australia, China, and Japan are all covered, but seem mostly as OTL. For anything else, there's nothing. Or i missed it.

<added>
I would like to flesh out the world a little. Almost every map i've seen sucks, few details are given about the status of car and trains (can you imagine Empire State or Hollywood not having freeways? i can't), and what's the Caribbean like? It's too focused of being an action game, but there's so much political subterfuge around. I'd like to know what popular entertainment is like. Movies are big, but what kind and what about sports? Are baseball and football still big? Maybe international tournaments would be bigger than national leagues. I'm sure pool and tennis would be big. And what's the state of scientific progress?

The hardest thing AHly about Crimson Skies is that it's not one PoD, it's many.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Another problem for the Allies is that they still have colonial empires and there are now even more other nations to arm and aid rebel factions in those colonies, whereas Germany doesn't have any colonies.

How unified or capable Stalin's rump USSR is may be debated. If he lost Ukraine then it is MUCH weaker than OTL.

I recall that Germany is still a monarchy is this world so Hitler may not be quite so dangerous is someone has a leash on him(and the officer corps gives allegience to the kaiser, not the current chancellor).

By the way, US population stats by state in 1930 OTL:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/pe...sta_pop_ran_pop-state-rankings-u-s-population

The New York/Pennsylvania/New Jersey combo had slightly over 20 percent of the total, California, on the other hand, had barely 4 percent and isn't going to go much higher without the electricity and water from Hoover Dam.

Since Manhattan outweighs the remnant US by 10 to 1 and the Quebec occupied states of New Hampshire/Vermont/Maine by more the first expansions seem obvious...wouldn't surprise me if the entire Northeast was back together in a few years. Then, if the southern states don't pull together...

 

[Redem]

Russia, also. Started with Red/White civil war. Then Stalin rises to power and his opponents try to take him down, from which the Politburo collapses. Then a brief period with warlords ruling much of the country (more than two dozen states). Stalin is still in the game, and has reunified much of the country. Alaska is also in this as Whites have moved there and rule large parts, though unofficially.

Actually the Soviet Union seem to be around in that world several mission in Pacifica involve attacking Soviet zepplin who seem basicly following the same pattern as OTL (but I can't recall if there was a mention of Stalin).

There at least one mention of Hitler during the Hawaii mission

So the world probably head toward WWII

 

[freodhoric]

I recall that Germany is still a monarchy is this world so Hitler may not be quite so dangerous is someone has a leash on him(and the officer corps gives allegience to the kaiser, not the current chancellor).

Uh, i didn't know that. Page 75. Kaiser Wilhem II, Chancellor Adolph Hitler. Somehow i don't see Hitler rising to power in a monarchy. This strikes me as a TL where Hitler is only known as a slightly insane painter.

The New York/Pennsylvania/New Jersey combo had slightly over 20 percent of the total, California, on the other hand, had barely 4 percent and isn't going to go much higher without the electricity and water from Hoover Dam.

California does have an almost monopoly on films. If the money's rolling in, what do they want more poor people for? It's a rich man's paradise, and those darn Okies, what good are they. Seriously, i could see indentured servitude making a resurgence in Hollywood. The Okies have nothing and will be desperate for loans. Come WWII, the Okies may form the core of an underground resistance.

Since Manhattan outweighs the remnant US by 10 to 1 and the Quebec occupied states of New Hampshire/Vermont/Maine by more the first expansions seem obvious...wouldn't surprise me if the entire Northeast was back together in a few years. Then, if the southern states don't pull together...

NH/Vt/Me are not Quebec occupied. They're the Maritime Provinces, who are occupying parts of Quebec, threatening the Atlantic Coalition and the Northumberland Association(and so, indirectly, the Protectorate of Ontario), the East Coast's largest source of mercenary pilots, and noted pirate haven(and they don't care). Nominally democratic, the current president is ruled by the generals, so it's effectively a junta.

 

[freodhoric]

Actually the Soviet Union seem to be around in that world several mission in Pacifica involve attacking Soviet zepplin who seem basicly following the same pattern as OTL (but I can't recall if there was a mention of Stalin).

Rump Soviet Union. Perhaps we can assume the SU still holds Vladivostok. Pacifica seems to be involved with Alaskan conflicts by virtue of proximity. It also seems to be a destination for Russian refugees.

Most of what i'm saying, i'm getting from FASA books, and you can't get any more canon than that.

So the world probably head toward WWII

Yes. Germany, Japan, and the ISA have signed the Anti-Comintern Pact and Germany has repudiated the Treaty of Versailles. The groundwork is being laid.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Has anyone read the official tie-in novel? It was nifty.

I think there were more tales and short stories on the old web site; however, I think that was taken down a year ago, unfortunately.

 

[Redem]

Has anyone read the official tie-in novel? It was nifty.

I think there were more tales and short stories on the old web site; however, I think that was taken down a year ago, unfortunately.

Yeah but thank to the wayback machine you can can access it

http://web.archive.org/web/20070629...nskiesuniverse.com/universe/default.htm?c00=0

I'm mostly taking my info from it and the PC game

 

[Atom]

Maybe we should do a fan version of the official 'canon' Crimson Skies universe. Perhaps North America isn't the only place that balkanized?

Sounds fun.

 

[Redem]

Sounds fun.

Yea, so what are the suggestion?

I think we should keep the POD mostly the same, although it might need some genesis to the regionalist movement and it's lingering influence through the America.

Also the "aero-centrism" should be global but downplay a bit (not make airplane the only thing that matter), possibly air piratry would start on other continent. It could rise quickly in China with Warlord and there a lot of place pirates could use to hide in Africa.

Germany could justify re-armining itself because of the piracy.

 

[freodhoric]

, possibly air piratry would start on other continent. It could rise quickly in China with Warlord and there
a lot of place pirates could use to hide in Africa.

Lessee, China. Unified under Chiang Kai-shek, except for the communists who have done the Long March.
In a war with Japan, which has led to a temporary Nationalist/Communist truce. Russia is supplying the
Communists.

Africa might not be a hot-bed of air-piracy because it will be difficult to build ruways. Trans-continental
airship trade might make for lucrative raids, but lower industrial capacity and lower trade levels will mean
that piracy won't flourish like it has in NA.

Australia, China, Russia, and Spain all boast shooting wars where a young mercenary can make a name for
himself.

Conventional piracy should see a resurgance.


Whew, i just finished this map.
Alberta is only nominally part of Ontario. Newfoundland and Labrador are part of Ontario, though increasingly
independant.
The map in the Airman's Gazetteer shows the bit of Ontario between Lakes Huron and Superior as part of the
ISA. I choose not to because the text states that the Royal Canadian Air Police is stationed at Sault Sainte
Marie, so then it must be part of Ontario.

 

[Redem]

Your map good

Well I'm speaking here of making a more realistic TL rather than enlarging the Canon

Well Manitoba being in the People collective but not Alberta and Saktatchewan still in "Canada" is weird.

Also the Capital of Quebec is shown as Montreal which would make basicly make the capital next door to the Maritimes provinces, OTL capital is safer (either change the capital or give back Southern Coast) Quebec could have swallow Labrador

I suggest that America might be brought more into division over WWI (hence help to regional division)but end up swallowed in isolation post-war

 

[freodhoric]

Your map good

Well I'm speaking here of making a more realistic TL rather than enlarging the Canon

Thanks.

I actually quite liked some of the original TL, but some of the canon extrapolations are rather silly.

Perhaps someone has a good idea just how much influence the Nazis have in Germany? Hitler as Chancellor indicates some, but the Kaiser seems quite active and assertive.

Well Manitoba being in the People collective but not Alberta and Saktatchewan still in "Canada" is weird.

The northern borders of the People's Collective is one the parts of that map that i am most unsure about. Every other CS map will show Alberta and Saskatchewan as part of the Disputed Western Territories. I only showed them as Canadian because Ontario still claims them.

Also the Capital of Quebec is shown as Montreal which would make basicly make the capital next door to the Maritimes provinces, OTL capital is safer (either change the capital or give back Southern Coast)

Checks the Gazetteer again. You're right! That makes no sense to me.
The book does say that there is a hundred-mile deep no-mans land between the Maritime Provinces and Quebec, and that the MP have a stronger hold further east. Perhaps that's why? Let's change it!

Quebec could have swallow Labrador

I'd think not from a plot development point-of-view. That would make relations between Ontario and Quebec even worse, and they need to be able to reconcile because they'll be allies in WWII. It would also remove a point of contention between the MP and Ontario, which is a conflict we want. It also distracts the MP from the Atlantic Coalition.

 

[Redem]

Thanks.

I actually quite liked some of the original TL, but some of the canon extrapolations are rather silly.

Perhaps someone has a good idea just how much influence the Nazis have in Germany? Hitler as Chancellor indicates some, but the Kaiser seems quite active and assertive.

Well interestly enough the Website doesn't "note" change till 1920, or the Kaiser was overthrown in 1918. Well one possibility would be the Weimar republic to keep the Kaiser as a symbolic nature which would enable Hitler to take power anyway.

The second flu epidemic could lead to several more worldwide effect (not all the change to geopolitic can be carry through butterly) like say on the Russian civil war.

On the Regionalist were they an unified force or were they simply various un-affiliated local parties?

 

[Strategos' Risk]

How 'bout the Flying Tigers, a decade or two early?