Crime and Immigration in the United States without the World Wars

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Modern Imperialism, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    How would crime and immigration develop within the United States without the world wars? Could we see higher or lower crime rates? Will immigration to America increased, decreased, or be restricted by the government. Will America have less of a social safety net in this world? How would that impact the previous questions asked?
     
  2. Dingus Khan Emperor of Nowhere

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    What effect did World War I have on the Prohibition and Great Depression? That era was the golden age of American gangsterism.
     
  3. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 14, 2012
    There were strong anti immigrant movements long before the Great War. When the KKK revived in 1915 the immigrant issue was at the top of its agenda.
     
  4. Mark E. Well-Known Member

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    Forgottonia, USA
    American involvement in WW1 assured prohibition would include beer because, well, "enemy" Germans were experts in the field. Gangsterism would have proceeded because hard liquor would have been a leading commodity and bookmaking was popular. We often forget that the Mobs still stayed strong after prohibition, with protection rackets and bookmaking. Rationing in WW2 kept them strong, and at this point, no war would have weakened them. The mobs went away for two reasons: first, horseracing (and thus bookmaking) became less popular with the advent of television; second, because the prosperity of the sixties and seventies eliminated the black markets for goods and services used by reliable customers. The remaining black markets were dominated by drugs and narcotics and addicts are not reliable customers. Plus, the mobs could not control the supply of foreign-sourced goods the way they could control liquor.
     
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  5. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    I could see mobs and gangsters becoming bigger without the war. Would a United States without the two great wars be less centralized and have less social welfare? Without the war would we see things like the new deal and fbi? Would the federal government break down on the mob like it did in the 60s? Would stuff like this increase crime? Also mobs can transition into white collar crime. The Italian mobs are still around and arguably recovered since the break down by the federal government in the late 60s. They just don't do violent crimes as recklessly or as open as they use to or they hire people like the crips to do it now.
     
  6. Gancio The Ranter Well-Known Member

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    The progressive movement was big before the war, so even without it you would still have a push for some kind of government "cooperation" with big business
     
  7. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom Kicked

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    US likely goes "left" earlier than OTL but much more socialist and MUCH less progressive without first the red scare, then the new deal to lock in progressive dominance. Think more redistributive welfare programs and pro-union legislation instead of extensive government "cooperation" with big busines with the associated "regulated" monopolies/oligopolies.

    Between less red tape to avoid/need to bribe your way around to get going, combined with no national prohibition organized crime would take ALOT longer to get going.
     
  8. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    I could see the socialist movement becoming more popular on the masses but limited in power due to the political system in the United States. I do feel like this left would be more traditional socialist economically while being conservative on social issues. I see a large socialist movement in America being Christian socialist. They probably won't be like the modern social democrats or a social democracy. I could see America break out into more class conflict in this world. We might see more of what happen in West Virginia with that armed conflict between workers against their employer.
     
  9. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom Kicked

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    Christian socialist? Maybe in the sense that UK labour initially sold itself as "Applied Christianity".
     
  10. Modern Imperialism Well-Known Member

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    If the socialist movement wants to grow in the United States it has to appeal to the religious masses in places like the Great Plains and west. It also needs to appeal to blacks and southerners to gain support. Both of these groups are religious. Socialist economic policies can be easily be tied with Christianity if they disregard many left wing social issues. Even in industrial areas the population can be very religious especially immigrants. The populations that will be most attracted to socialist economic policies will be the groups I mentioned. Look at West Virginia history you can see a great amount of support for left wing economic policies but still staying socially conservative. Socialist needs to base its self more around Christianity to be successful in the United States. If socialism stays left wing socially it will be demonized by many.
     
  11. Gancio The Ranter Well-Known Member

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    Aug 31, 2016
    Without the world wars we have
    1) no red scare, so anti immigration laws would be delayed
    2) the American socialist party would have a good boost
    3) the federal government wouldn't grow as much as it did without the first world War
    4) the great depression is definitely delayed
    5) the great migration of African Americans to the north is delayed, possibly forever. So we have a lot of unfrenchised black people in the south, and keep in mind that mechanization of agriculture is coming very fast
    6) without the world Wars many European countries would develop much quicker, so italians would stop arriving by the 40s at the latest, and eastern Europeans not much later
    7) this means more catholics, jews and orthodox in the US
    8) possibly an escalation of American military presence in Mexico
    9) in general the United States would remain much more geopolitically focused on central America and Eastern Asia. For central America this might mean a general higher standard of living, diminishing the immigration rates of those countries to the US
    10) virtually no immigration to the US from Korea or Vietnam, and no war brides
    11) probably no nation wide ban on prohibition, but the perceived failure of prohibition weakened the movement, so it might make it stronger overall
    12) depending on how things go in China, a war with Japan is a possibility. If Russia doesn't do it first
    13) organized crime would still be present, but it would be much less organized and powerful
    14) no idea on how the Jim crow situation might develop
    15) the us would spend much less money on defence, but probably the us navy is still going to be as powerful as the royal navy. Battleships are still dead by 1940 IMO
     
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