Creating a US / UK war in the late 1939's

Hi all,

I am doing a semi sanity check here, and to see if it is possible.....

Basically a short story jumped into my head (Still writing) and I started to wonder if it was possible.

Basis of the story is this: The British Empire and USA end up in a war in the late 1930's / early 1940's with the US invading Canada to prevent the British Empire using it as a stepping stone to invade the contential US. Canada had declared neutrality at the Empire declaration of war, but is invaded anyway as the US don't believe them.

Now, what would the PoD need to be to get this to happen? Anything after the Great War works, but not before please. Bonus points awarded if you can tie it in with my TL. Link here.

Cheers all! :)
 
My first thought was "no way in hell" but then you mentioned the POD being as early as the end of World War I. OK, that's easier.

It's one thing to simply have poor relations. It's another for the US to launch a preemptive invasion of Canada. To do that, you'd need a major ideological shift.

Hmm... maybe a Communist revolution in the US? I'm not sure how you'd pull that off in under 20 years, but it's not impossible. If relations went badly enough after the Communists took over, then Britain and the US might go to war, at which point the invasion of Canada would be a certainty.
 
The US gets upset and throws a tantrum at their failure to break up the Anglo-Japanese alliance. As a result of poor diplomatic relations, they demand parts of Canada as "compensation" for British war debts.
 
My first thought was "no way in hell" but then you mentioned the POD being as early as the end of World War I. OK, that's easier.

It's one thing to simply have poor relations. It's another for the US to launch a preemptive invasion of Canada. To do that, you'd need a major ideological shift.

Hmm... maybe a Communist revolution in the US? I'm not sure how you'd pull that off in under 20 years, but it's not impossible. If relations went badly enough after the Communists took over, then Britain and the US might go to war, at which point the invasion of Canada would be a certainty.
The reason for the invasion of Canada is simply to prevent the British Empire using it as a stepping stone for an invasion of the USA (Obviously a troop buildup in Canada is a VERY bad thing for the US, and taking Canada forces the Brits to launch an amphibious invasion & given the Empire's WWI History with that).

No other reason..... Eliminate a weakness in defences.....
 
Fascist Britain, anyone?
Fascist Britain doesn't get much traction here . Fascist America, on the other hand, may be more popular than OTL. So let's go with a Fascist Britain. Maybe a Britain that sees the USA as a long term threat. The Empire decides on a quick war to eliminate the American threat.
 
You'd likely need the British to side with Japan over the United States for whatever reason.

The easiest way to do that is to bolster the Soviets and have the United States play nice with them I think. Have Trotsky win at Warsaw, the reds in Hungary and Slovakia survive, and the Persian Soviet Socialist Republic hold out and fear of the reds will be the first thing on everybody's mind in Western Europe.

Then have the proposed agreement where the Soviets lease Kamchatka to the US in exchange for investment and loans go through.

Britain proceeds to go mad about how the Americans are playing nice with the red hordes and sides with Japan instead of the United States.


The 1932 Imperial Conference's desire for Imperial Preference then opts to include the Japanese as part of the arrangement. The Americans are peeved.
 
How about this for an idea (Sanity check me please!).

Background:

In my TL the US is in the middle of the Great Depression (As per OTL) but Europe is better off than OTL (Mainly because they are 'Buying Europe' first and pumping up the economies of each other). The US is trying this with itself but it is not working too well (So result = OTL Depression). They see Europe and are jealous and this has upset the population, but politics do nothing.

Now as per my TL in 1935/36 there is a coup in Argentina and the Argentinans attack the Falkland Islands. They are retaken and the coup leaders overthrown by the British Empire following a land invasion. Argentina is restored as a soverign nation and the British Empire withdraws after trying those responsible and arranging new elections. US is pissed however and delcare it an breach of the Monroe Doctrine, and economically freeze UK assets etc. in the US. Response is a general cooling of relations between the US & UK, but nothing that time will not heal (As the UK has left Argentina by now).

This cooling trundles along for a few years and ends up in increased US / French relations (As France politically pissed at UK for various reasons). This in turn leads to increased US / Russia relations as well (As Russia friendly with France & Italy) - Side point however, as neither US or Russia really 'trust' each other and more than OTL. Just more trade).

Now, given this general cooling of US / Brit Empire relations, all you need is a few (Large) sparks or wildfires to get things worse politically. What if therefore a very minor situation indeed is seized upon and blown out of all proportion by the US press (Given the doom & gloom they would have been reporting, I believe that ANYTHING that diverts attention from their economy will be jumped upon!!). If this happens and the public become outraged by it (Again, easily possible I believe given the level of anger the population would have had about their economic position in the Great Depression), the politicans will NEED to issue some form of response to appease the public.


So, given this background what I am thinking is:

A minor situation and a few 'ill chosen' words spoken out of frustration (Related to each other) which when reported results in anger blown out of all proportion. This leads to a US military response (Overseas, maritime related incident so USN). The government knows things are blown out of proportion and send the ships more as a show of 'Look, we are doing something here' and expect things to be nothing more than an overseas training opportunity and to cool down in a few months. However what if an international incident occurs during this deployment and neither side (US / UK) then wish to back down? This will cause further cooling of relationships that other nations (Russia) can use to further divide the US / UK and this ultimatly leads to war (Something akin to a Russian staged "False Flag" oparation occurs to trigger actual declarations of war - Not planned in detail yet).

Is this possible?
 
Fascist Britain doesn't get much traction here . Fascist America, on the other hand, may be more popular than OTL. So let's go with a Fascist Britain. Maybe a Britain that sees the USA as a long term threat. The Empire decides on a quick war to eliminate the American threat.
Suspects the US of encouraging/funding independence movements in the colonies and lashes out. The Dominions would stay out of it though if at all possible. With a Fascist Britain they have probably severed ties with Britain anyway.
 

Redcoat

Banned
Ooooooo I have a friend with this exact same scenario as a TL! Answering when I get to my computer.


Neither America or The UK go fascist or commie.
 
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Suspects the US of encouraging/funding independence movements in the colonies and lashes out. The Dominions would stay out of it though if at all possible. With a Fascist Britain they have probably severed ties with Britain anyway.
Ooooooo I have a friend with this exact same scenario as a TL! Answering when I get to my computer.


Neither America or The UK go fascist or commie.
Correct. Neither the US or UK go Fascist or Communist.
 
MY two cents:

- The technocracy movement is a little stronger ITTL and remain a political force in the US in the early 30's.
- The business plot happen but they pick someone else than Butler
- there is a short civil war-like period but in the end an American Technate is created and immediately start his expansionist rethoric.
- An American-German alliance is created, while Italy remain suspicios of this new arrival on the fascist vagon (in poor words he don't really like true competition) and remain more or less on the Stresa Front (the second Italian-Abyssinian war is resolved with the Hoare-Laval pact and the nationalist win the Spanish civil war as Italy is too occupied with the German move on the north).

In September 39 with the German invasion of Poland the Washington goverment decide to join the German in the war against the Entente and launch his invasion of Canada
 
I don't know about 1939, and Im not sure what year this was planned, but Carl Panzram, a disgusting Serial Killer from the 1920's and 30's who planned to scuttle a British Warship in New York harbor to spark a war between the two nations.
 
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