Creating a POD to keep the U.S.out of the 1st WW

CaliGuy

Banned
Nope, any negotiated peace is effectively a British/Entente defeat. Because the British, French, and Italians depended on US food, oil, steel, gun cotton, etc. imports to keep going.
Completely agreed.

Also, though, question--how exactly do you know so much about German and Austrian history, Wiking? Indeed, are there any sources that I can read about this which are relatively short (as in, shorter than books)?
 
Whether it would have worked is another matter, but it is what the British traditionally did.

I realise that but in effect British participation didn't deter the German offensive in the west so it would occur regardless and thus suck Britain into participation. There is an opion among people that British participation was a touch and go prospect and a small change can keep them out, but those people are wrong!
 
Have the Entente suffer some sort of PR disaster in the US in 1915-1917; perhaps they accidentally sink a US flagged ship, or have some sort of embarrassing leak from their war or diplomatic offices. This might make Germany less likely to implement USW or Zimmerman as they see US entry as less inevitable, or would make war against Germany less palatable to the Americans.
 

Deleted member 1487

Completely agreed.

Also, though, question--how exactly do you know so much about German and Austrian history, Wiking? Indeed, are there any sources that I can read about this which are relatively short (as in, shorter than books)?
Having an unhealthy obsession with military history that has branched out to other aspects of history. I did also study abroad in Vienna, so got to visit a bunch of military museums and visit some battlefields, while also learning to read German well enough to access a lot of historical information that is generally not available in english.

Have the Entente suffer some sort of PR disaster in the US in 1915-1917; perhaps they accidentally sink a US flagged ship, or have some sort of embarrassing leak from their war or diplomatic offices. This might make Germany less likely to implement USW or Zimmerman as they see US entry as less inevitable, or would make war against Germany less palatable to the Americans.
One big one is have it revealed that the Lusitania had explosives on it and that the Brits were using Americans and human shields to transport war materials.
http://www.centenarynews.com/article?id=1616
 
OK; however, this would nevertheless ultimately be a losing strategy for Britain and for the Entente.

I'm not saying it's a winning strategy, or losing one for that matter. I'm saying it's a plausible alternative strategy for them to follow. It very much fits with the traditional British mindset and in 1915 it's possible that the British would make the assumption that France and Russia could carry the land war. What happens then is the interesting bit.
 
I'm not saying it's a winning strategy, or losing one for that matter. I'm saying it's a plausible alternative strategy for them to follow. It very much fits with the traditional British mindset and in 1915 it's possible that the British would make the assumption that France and Russia could carry the land war. What happens then is the interesting bit.

The questions here are what happens with the British bashing away at the Ottomans and Hapsburgs? Can they open a supply line to the Russians? Is this sufficient to prevent a Russian collapse? If the strategy isn't working do the British commit to the land war later? After 1916 for example, or earlier/later etc.

I don't have a specific end goal, just what happens next :)
 
I am plodding through three possible PODs:

(1) TR runs for a second full-term in 1908, he eschews the "third-term" in 1912, likely a Republican wins but Democrats make inroads and possibly TR influences Europe in peace talks regarding the second Moroccan crisis or involves the USA in Mexico on the eve of WWI; (2) the assignation occurs but with first assassin only so it is more obscure it is a conspiracy, common knowledge is that Serbs are behind it but no trail into Serbia and by inference to Russia, A-H makes less onerous demands and no Blank Check, Russia rattles sabre meekly if at all, the spark averted but Greece intercepts and sinks the Ottoman battleship, Europe on edge stumbles backwards into war; (3) from first two PODs Moltke shies from a France first coup de gras and choses Russia first, Germany fails to violate Belgium in 1914 and without coastal ports has weaker position to launch USW. Each affords one with a close on to out known timeline with many butterflies to both open and close doors to alternate outcomes.

I can draw foggy lines to British Empire never entering war or with less enthusiasm, Russia still sets events in motion with a mobilization, FF still dies, the war ends in 1914 or a white peace in 1918, the Italians stay neutral or not, Mussolini or not, and so on. But without WWI the USA goes off in a very different orbit. I am questioning the passage of Prohibition, the Great Depression, whether there is a Sino-Japanese War and if the USA goes to war with Japan, and so on as butterflies beget caterpillars that give yet more butterflies.
 
I am plodding throever entering war or with less enthusiasm, Russia still sets events in motion with a mobilization, FF still dies, the war ends in 1914 or a white peace in 1918, the Italians stay neutral or not, Mussolini or not, and so on. But without WWI the USA goes off in a very different orbit. I am questioning the passage of Prohibition, the Great Depression, whether there is a Sino-Japanese War and if the USA goes to war with Japan, and so on as butterflies beget caterpillars that give yet more butterflies.

The Great War is such a critical event, the moment you start messing with it you're guaranteed to be engulfed in a cloud of vicious woman eating butterflies.
 
The Great War is such a critical event, the moment you start messing with it you're guaranteed to be engulfed in a cloud of vicious woman eating butterflies.

To be honest I started merely changing World War Two, but as I study the history I am getting more confident to tinker with the Great One. I must sound rather crazed when I talk about it, with almost 100 years upon us in 2018 the tiniest of change ripples Tsunami like.
 
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