Coup in Britain '68

I was reading some Ted Grant and noticed he had an article about supposed preparations for a military coup to counter the Labour Government of Harold Wilson organised by Cecil King, a group of leading industrialists and politicians, particularly Lord Mountbatten. I've never heard of this before but I knew the strength of the organised working class in this period really threatened the right wing. What would have had to happen to make the coup a reality? And what would the resultant effects of the coup be? Would it have been successful?
 
My initial reaction is you'd need Alien Space Bats. As far as I'm aware for all the talk since then about the rumoured coup d'état there's never been any actual credible evidence to suggest it was a real thing.
 

Tovarich

Banned
My initial reaction is you'd need Alien Space Bats. As far as I'm aware for all the talk since then about the rumoured coup d'état there's never been any actual credible evidence to suggest it was a real thing.

It was real to the extent that a bunch of superannuated Colonel Blimp types would get marinated in port at the Army & Navy Club, then talk crap until Mountbatten came along one evening and told them to stop being so ridiculous.
 
I don't necessarily believe that the Western democracies are unassailable institutions in this period that it would take ASBs to attack them but I agree that it would take more than the people who got involved in OTL. That's why I'm asking what it would take to make such an event occur. Different Suez crises? Different decolonisation perhaps? A more radical Labour Party and TUC leading to greater reactionary response?
 
I don't necessarily believe that the Western democracies are unassailable institutions in this period that it would take ASBs to attack them but I agree that it would take more than the people who got involved in OTL. That's why I'm asking what it would take to make such an event occur. Different Suez crises? Different decolonisation perhaps? A more radical Labour Party and TUC leading to greater reactionary response?

Well, it depends on what Western democracy we're talking about. The Algiers Putsch, while a failed one IOTL, was a very serious threat to the continuity of democracy in France.

Britain, however, is one of the most historically stable states in all of Europe, perhaps even the world. The last event that could have even remotely been described as a major period of nationwide domestic violence in British history was the English Civil War in the 17th century.

Britain, while by no means a perfect country or one in which all people were equal, nonetheless remained one of the most stable and steadfast governments in Europe for most of its history. Precedent is a very important thing when it comes to things like a coup, if there is no precedent for it, it is that much harder to get a coup plot moving.
 
I was reading some Ted Grant and noticed he had an article about supposed preparations for a military coup to counter the Labour Government of Harold Wilson organised by Cecil King, a group of leading industrialists and politicians, particularly Lord Mountbatten. I've never heard of this before but I knew the strength of the organised working class in this period really threatened the right wing. What would have had to happen to make the coup a reality? And what would the resultant effects of the coup be? Would it have been successful?

The easiest way of getting rid of Harold Wilson in 1968 would have been to force a general election somehow.

The Conservatives were about 30% ahead in the polls at the time and Labour was suffering enormous defeats in local elections.
 
It was real to the extent that a bunch of superannuated Colonel Blimp types would get marinated in port at the Army & Navy Club, then talk crap until Mountbatten came along one evening and told them to stop being so ridiculous.

I remember reading that Barbara Castle, that bastion of right wing thought, was Mountbatten's preferred Prime Minister if Wilson got the boot and an emergency government was being formed.
 

Tovarich

Banned
I remember reading that Barbara Castle, that bastion of right wing thought, was Mountbatten's preferred Prime Minister if Wilson got the boot and an emergency government was being formed.

Ah, Barbara....shall I ever see a TL where she is deservedly our first female PM?

I hadn't heard that one, but I had read that when Prince Charles wanted to join the Trinity Students for Labour group at Cambridge, Mountbatten was given the task of gently dissuading him, on the basis that he understood how Charles felt.

And then there's the one where a Conservative canvassing team were surprised to find Mountbatten open his own door, and say "Oh, haha, I'm certain we can rely on your support my lord."
They got the reply "I always vote Labour, but you can speak to my butler if you like, he votes Conservative." :D

So I've never understood where the idea Mountbatten was some kind of fascist itching to seize power comes from either.
 
The last event that could have even remotely been described as a major period of nationwide domestic violence in British history was the English Civil War in the 17th century.
If we're being scrupulously fair then I'd have to say the last event was probably the Glorious Revolution forty-odd years later. Granted most of the heavy fighting took place in Scotland and Ireland but IIRC there were some battles down in England.


Britain, while by no means a perfect country or one in which all people were equal, nonetheless remained one of the most stable and steadfast governments in Europe for most of its history. Precedent is a very important thing when it comes to things like a coup, if there is no precedent for it, it is that much harder to get a coup plot moving.
The theory I've seen proposed for a lot of that was basically partly down to Parliament meaning no absolute monarchy and partly down to a slow and steady pace of reforms that acted as a release valve so that pressures never built up to revolutionary or civil war levels. There was an article I read ages back which I can't find now that mentioned a retiring, French I think it was, ambassador a few years before the Great War kicked off that was very complimentary about it all - pointing out how much the country had changed over the last hundred or two hundred years or so without needing to have a revolution.
 

Cook

Banned
I was reading some Ted Grant and noticed...
Your source is someone who was so extreme in his views that he was expelled from the Worker’s International for being too left wing; you could fit several sizable continents in the gap between his ideas and the real world. The British army is completely apolitical and has been since Monk restored Charles II to the throne.
 

sharlin

Banned
I vaguely remember hearing about this too. I think it was because some folks thought the then current PM was actually a Soviet agent. I can't remember where I read it but...yeah I think this may have been a thing.
 
68?
Seems odd to me, I've heard talk of this kind of thing in the 70s when the economic situation was rather iffy but not the 60s.
 

sharlin

Banned
From Wikipedia so take with a pinch (or truckload) of salt


The 1968 plot[edit]

In his 1976 memoir Walking on Water, Hugh Cudlipp recounts a meeting he arranged at the request of Cecil King, the head of the International Publishing Corporation, between King and Lord Mountbatten of Burma. The meeting took place on May 8, 1968. Attending were Mountbatten, King, Cudlipp, and Sir Solly Zuckerman, the Chief Scientific Adviser to the British government.
According to Cudlipp:

"[Cecil] awaited the arrival of Sir Solly and then at once expounded his views on the gravity of the national situation, the urgency for action, and then embarked upon a shopping list of the Prime Minister's shortcomings...He explained that in the crisis he foresaw as being just around the corner, the Government would disintegrate, there would be bloodshed in the streets and the armed forces would be involved. The people would be looking to somebody like Lord Mountbatten as the titular head of a new administration, somebody renowned as a leader of men, who would be capable, backed by the best brains and administrators in the land, to restore public confidence. He ended with a question to Mountbatten- would he agree to be the titular head of a new administration in such circumstances?"[6]

Mountbatten asked for the opinion of Zuckerman, who stated that the plan amounted to treason and left the room. Mountbatten expressed the same opinion, and King and Cudlipp left.[7] On 30 May 1968 King was dismissed as the head of the International Publishing Corporation.

In addition to Mountbatten's refusal to participate in King's mooted plot, there is no evidence of any other conspirators. Cudlipp himself appears to see the meeting as an example of extreme egotism on King's part.[7]

A later memoir by Harold Evans, former Times and Sunday Times editor, observed that the Times had egged on King's plans for a coup:

Rees-Mogg's Times backed the Conservative Party in every general election, but it periodically expressed yearnings for a coalition of the right-centre. In the late 1960s it encouraged Cecil King's lunatic notion of a coup against Harold Wilson's Labour Government in favour of a government of business leaders led by Lord Robens. In the autumn election of 1974, it predicted that economic crisis would produce a coalition government of national unity well inside five years and urged one there and then between Conservatives and Liberals.[8]

William Rees-Mogg called for a coalition in a December 8, 1968 Times editorial entitled "The Danger to Britain", a day before King visited the Times office.[9]

A BBC programme The Plot Against Harold Wilson, broadcast in 2006, reported that, in tapes recorded soon after his resignation on health grounds, Wilson stated that for eight months of his premiership he didn't "feel he knew what was going on, fully, in security". Wilson alleged two plots, in the late 1960s and mid-1970s respectively. He said that plans had been hatched to install Lord Mountbatten, Prince Charles's great uncle and mentor, as interim Prime Minister (see also Other conspiracy theories, below). He also claimed that ex-military leaders had been building up private armies in anticipation of "wholesale domestic liquidation". On a separate track, elements within MI5 had also, the BBC programme reported, spread "black propaganda" that Wilson and Williams were Soviet agents, and that Wilson was an IRA sympathiser, apparently with the intention of helping the Conservatives win the 1974 election.
 
I have to say that from what little I know of William Rees-Mogg that does sound a little far-fetched or misleadingly written considering the fact that he wrote his 'Who Breaks a Butterfly Upon a Wheel?' editorial defending the Rolling Stones in the Redlands court case only six months later. I think it's fairer to say that The Times has generally always been a centre-right newspaper so supporting the idea of a centre-right coalition is hardly radical, likewise predicting economic trouble and the government being forced out in the 70s considering the way things were going was hardly an out of the ordinary view at the time.
 
Apologies for the shameless plug, but Agent Lavender (linked in my sig) is set in 1975, but features some of the players from the alleged coup plans, and refers back to the events of 1968. The premise is that Harold Wilson is actually a KGB spy, so things go to hell in a handbasket rather quickly when he's caught.
 
Taking Walking on Water as it is described on wikipedia, the story does sound suspiciously similar to the Business Plot as in it has only a couple of witnesses (or even just one) and it is difficult to see how said evidence points to anything more than complaining about the prime minister/president over drinks. On top of that there is this occasional meme about Lord Mountbatten becoming dictator for one reason or another, I'm not sure whether this is where it came from. I don't know if anyone can provide anymore evidence but for the moment I am unconvinced.

teg
 
On top of that there is this occasional meme about Lord Mountbatten becoming dictator for one reason or another, I'm not sure whether this is where it came from.
It's doubly funny when you take into account Tovarich's comment that Mountbatten was apparently a Labour voter. :)


The Two Ronnies did a story about a feminist-ruled England (from which the characters whom they were playing fled...) in which the Tower of London had been re-named after her... :D
Ah yes, The Worm That Turned. :D
 
At the time of the Grosvenor Square anti-Vietnam riots in 1968 there was talk of a coup down to senior NCO level in the British Army, so it wasn't just senior officers in some London club.

A friend who isn't one for tall tales was a Sergeant at the time and says there were a lot of scared soldiers thinking they were seeing things fall apart with the riots. The actual coup probably didn't exist, it was probably a case of chinese-whispers taking on life of their own.

Interestingly he also mentions the discussions in the mess suggested Lord Mountbatten as a leader.
 
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