Countries in the East.

How could countries like HRE and other more eastern countries in Europe could have developed into stronger and more centralized nations and leave those in the west less centralized. Reverse what really happened pretty much.
 
How could countries like HRE and other more eastern countries in Europe could have developed into stronger and more centralized nations and leave those in the west less centralized. Reverse what really happened pretty much.
Is this a DBWI? :confused:
 
not sure what that stands for.
Double-Blind What If. I just meant that this did happen for a while - the HRE was centralized while France was a feudal backwater. At the same time Kiev's central government was powerful, and so was the emerging Polish state. Also, the Byzantine Empire was at its height.
 
Double-Blind What If. I just meant that this did happen for a while - the HRE was centralized while France was a feudal backwater. At the same time Kiev's central government was powerful, and so was the emerging Polish state. Also, the Byzantine Empire was at its height.

Not what i was going for, i was wondering what would have needed to change for it to go the other way around. People can use this thread and go that way. I would still find my answer when people talk about the way things "are"
 

yourworstnightmare

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Well, the interresting fact is that France was the most decentralized "state" in Europe during the Middle Ages, while several German (Holy Roman) Emperors were able to rule their Empire in a relative (for the time) centralized way.

Poland and the Byzantine Empire also started out as very centralized states, but were decentralized by time (and foreign invasions).
 
Interesting. I do remember in my history class a little talk being on poland-lithuania being a strong state at one point. Also, I do not see something that is very far from what actually happened in otl as asb. Just that the dominoes of everyone's desiscions make them fall farther from what they could have. Meaning the dominoes are just as likely to have fallen another way, even something most would consider asb in from the perspective of how things went in otl. Obviously some things are asb such as alien invasion and such, well as far as can be considered from what we know. So with that, what dominoes would have needed to fall in order for countries in Eastern Europe be more centralized than those in the west?
 
Poland has a lot of potential but you need to keep from Poland from breaking apart, it must be prevented from being carved up into five duchies after the death of Bolesław III Wrymouth. That would be the first step in keeping Poland a powerful stable centralized states.
 
Im not talking just Poland though, HRE, Italy, and somehow keep those in eastern europe more centralized and better than those in the west. Pretty much just reverse what europe looks like. Those in the West more centralized and strong as you get toward Iberia/France/England.
 
Im not talking just Poland though, HRE, Italy, and somehow keep those in eastern europe more centralized and better than those in the west. Pretty much just reverse what europe looks like. Those in the West more centralized and strong as you get toward Iberia/France/England.

Well the HRE you need to have an emporer who will kill off any and every noble that gets in his way and after crushing and subduing the various princes and absorbing their lands he unites all of the Empire under strong direct Imperial rule, thats the only way I can think of the HRE being able to centrilize is at the point of the sword the same with Italy you need a skilled chaismatic leader who can unify Italy at the point of a sword. Hungary also has potential but you need them to be able to fend off Muslims and Mongols. Maybe they join in a union with Poland at some early point?
 
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