Could the Weimar Republic survive?

Probably already discussed several times, but could the Weimar Republic survive the 30s and maybe onward? Any possible reform during the 20s / early 30s or the democratic republic was doomed to collapse?
 
If Schleicher survives just a wee bit longer for his programs to bear fruit, then yes. Hindenberg dies shortly thereafter hopefully providing a better executive.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Probably already discussed several times, but could the Weimar Republic survive the 30s and maybe onward?
I think it is not nearly discussed enough, and IMO it could be done when one of the following, preferably both, happens:
1) In the 1932 presidential election, the Weimar Coalition proposes someone who's actually committed to preserve democracy, rather than a reluctant oathkeeper who runs in and out of senility.
2) The Zentrum and SPD have a leap of insight and show some bipartisanship when democracy is at stake, to ensure that there can always be a government that's at least tolerated by the democratic parties
Any possible reform during the 20s / early 30s or the democratic republic was doomed to collapse?
There are lots of thinks that I would improve but nothing that absolutely has to change. Yes the political system struggled to survive the aftermath of WWI - but it did survive and stabilized in the late 1920s. And again the system went into a heavy crisis due to the Great depression - as nearly every political system did.
The lost cause myth may make the better narrative, but I'm all but convinced that there's much reality in it.
 
I think it is not nearly discussed enough, and IMO it could be done when one of the following, preferably both, happens:
1) In the 1932 presidential election, the Weimar Coalition proposes someone who's actually committed to preserve democracy, rather than a reluctant oathkeeper who runs in and out of senility.
2) The Zentrum and SPD have a leap of insight and show some bipartisanship when democracy is at stake, to ensure that there can always be a government that's at least tolerated by the democratic parties

There are lots of thinks that I would improve but nothing that absolutely has to change. Yes the political system struggled to survive the aftermath of WWI - but it did survive and stabilized in the late 1920s. And again the system went into a heavy crisis due to the Great depression - as nearly every political system did.
The lost cause myth may make the better narrative, but I'm all but convinced that there's much reality in it.

Agreed....maybe a better management of 1932 elections by the true democratic parties would have sustained the Republic until the end of the deeper depression period (1934-35)...if things start to improve by 1935, even if marginally, could see the centrist parties and non-extremist right wing untying somehow to avoid a Communist or Nazi takeover.
 
Probably already discussed several times, but could the Weimar Republic survive the 30s and maybe onward? Any possible reform during the 20s / early 30s or the democratic republic was doomed to collapse?
My own thoughts revolve around the US loans, and the idea that Germany was not so much paying off her debts, but rather just digging ever deeper into debt. Is this view correct or no?

If so, then at some point, when the debts come due, the government is not going to be able to pay, and the German economy fails, and the government comes crashing down.
 

Perkeo

Banned
My own thoughts revolve around the US loans, and the idea that Germany was not so much paying off her debts, but rather just digging ever deeper into debt. Is this view correct or no?

If so, then at some point, when the debts come due, the government is not going to be able to pay, and the German economy fails, and the government comes crashing down.
Well yes and no.

It is true that Germany had a budget deficit problem, but that doesn’t mean they were running towards an inevitable crash. They needed to repair the economy, pay reparations and restore confidence after a hyperinflation where a glass of beer literally cost billions of marks. One problem at a time.
Given how strong Germany was at the time in science and culture, I see no problems paying the dept when given a decade or two of stable global economy.
 
Would a right-authoritarian (but not Nazi) regime which preserves the forms of the Republic but relies heavily on the President's Article 48 powers to rule by decree count as survival?
 
Would say that, maybe, this would be the best chance for a non-Nazi German during the 30s, but have a question for all: could a fascist-like (authoritarian but not extremely racist or expansionist) movement suppress the Nazi Party during the 30s?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Would say that, maybe, this would be the best chance for a non-Nazi German during the 30s, but have a question for all: could a fascist-like (authoritarian but not extremely racist or expansionist) movement suppress the Nazi Party during the 30s?
"Suppress" ... no ... might also be the wrong word.

If there would be another, similar "prominent" extrem right-wing party/organization they and the NSDAP would first fight and then absorg the other, whoever might win.
IMO one of the prerequisites ofr "the other" to win is to get rid of Adolf Hitler. With him still in the pond "The other" will be the one absorbed/taken over.

Btw, something similar happened in the 20ies, whne AH sat in prison and the NSDAP was forbidden.
Their members, to a large degree though also into other organizations, flocked to the DVFP (Deutsch-völkische Freiheitspartei [German 'völkisch' Freedom Party). The party and its high(er) echolons were in the early 20ies much better "known" and had a much better reputation as well as numbers of members than the NSDAP. It was also organized in the whole german state and not only being a bavarain splinter-group. Something Gregor Strasser worked with (he quickly became part of its leading triumvirate) and learned much of his later know-how.

When Hitler came out of prison it was a rather hard fight for him to get "his" men back. At first only his closest, munich-based "buddies".
Only after he "convinced" the Strassers the newly founded NSDAP started to reappear and ... survive. The fight against the DVFP was "won" only after 1928, when Strasser reworked the NSDAP organization on the whole state-scale (as he had already in his ... northern "fiefdom" inside the NSDAP).
 
There's a decent chance that Nazi support would have collapsed had Hindenberg, Papen, and company held firm and continued Article 48 rule or held another snap election instead of cutting a deal with Hitler. The Nazi party had lost seats in the November 1932 election, and internal Nazi memos show a fear that their support would continue to slip if they didn't manage to seize full power before the next election. They'd overextended themselves financially, and their status as the largest parliamentary party made them less appealing as a target for the protest votes that had formed a large portion of their electoral support.

But the two biggest parties that gained seats in November 1932 were the Communists and the DNVP (the conservative/monarchist party). If this trend would continue, it's not looking good for the Republic long-term even if Nazi support collapses. The Communists were just as anti-democracy as the Nazis, and the DNVP (besides their monarchist inclinations) had a lot of ground to cover to catch up with the Communists (52 seats vs 100, with 293 required for a majority).
 

NoMommsen

Donor
There's a decent chance that Nazi support would have collapsed had Hindenberg, Papen, and company held firm and continued Article 48 rule or held another snap election instead of cutting a deal with Hitler.
IMO a - possibly - much "better" moment to "hold firm" would have been in April/May 1932 for Hindenburg, NOT to sack Brüning.
Possible run of events :
  • Brüning cuts an even better deal on the Lausanne conference about the reparations. Hell, even v.Papen got the offer of rendering the infamous article 231 (about the war guilt) inactive at least, as well as a declaration about recognizing germanys equality on the dearmament negotiation in Geneva (essentially what Streiche got in December that year).
    • But this bloke managed to blow it
  • with this "success" (low to nil further reparations, recognizing germany equality on armament [first step to abandon part V of the ToV on arms], abondoning of the "war guilt" clause of the ToV), he strikes a deal with the SPD to continue his reign with the promise of using the "freed of reparations" budget to initiate a work-creation program
  • with the "success" of ITTL Lausanne Brünings position with Hindenburg might also be reaffirmed and he could go on longer
However, with these results, together with a though slowly but already indicated end of the worst of the economic situation in late 1932 he would have IMO been also able to dare a new election in autumn/winter 1932, which with gains for Center, DNVP and perhaps SPD would/could secure his way of running the country for some more time.
The NSDAP would go mad, become even more criminalized and get bankrupt.

The Nazi party had lost seats in the November 1932 election, and internal Nazi memos show a fear that their support would continue to slip if they didn't manage to seize full power before the next election. 1. They'd overextended themselves financially, and their status as the largest parliamentary party made them less appealing as a target for the 2. protest votes that had formed a large portion of their electoral support.
I can agree with
1. the financial overextension
but much lesser with
2. of being a less "attractive" protest party
It was rather the opposite . The voters "left" the NSDAP because it did not deliver, what was expected :
participation in a goverment

Due to Hitler "all or nothing" attitude despite several offers for the party to participate, though not with Hitler as chancellor, many of the voters were dissapointed ... and returned to their former "right-wing" champion DNVP, which had at least shown the willingness to and at times actually did in the past participate in ruling the country.
Many within the NSDAP were "uneasy" with Hitlers stance as well btw. What let to the sacking of Gregor Strasser.
 
This might be- & probably is- too simple but
I'm gonna put it out there anyway:

A different President of the Republic during
the crucial 1930-1933 period than the by
that time not very mentally sound Hinden-
burg?
 
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