Could the USSR have retained its borders and not lose any of its constituent republics while also liberalizing its economic and political systems, resulting in the same general level of freedom as was present in 1990s Russia?
Could the USSR Liberalize w/o Fragmenting?
- Thread starter DominusNovus
- Start date
CaliGuy
Banned
No; regardless of anything else, the Baltic states were gone as soon as they were allowed to exit.
To undo that, you have to have the Bolsheviks seize the Baltic states during the Russian Civil War. However, even then it might be too late considering that the Bolsheviks would be unable to build mass support for their regime through universal literacy in the Baltic states (since most people there were already literate even in the early 1920s).
Mr. Mass Line
Banned
Oh yeah totally, stop the drift to the right throughout the 80s, which is when and why the breadlines and other such inefficiencies start to happen, and I highly doubt that many of the people will wish for full independence.
Consider that Kiev was part of Russia before the Baltic state seizures... I CAN imagine USSR keeping everything but the Baltics
RousseauX
Donor
Sure, just have the new Union treaty go through
The USSR basically becomes a confederation with a unified foreign policy and military (in theory anyway), while almost all domestic policy goes to individual republics
on the long run maybe the federal government loses power until the union is basically symbolic only but the USSR would have existed in some form for a lot longer
You could also put the Baltic states + Kaliningrad into one administrative unit and let the entirety of it vote on independence, it's less "in your face" and gets you the same result.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1298395.stm
For Kazakhstan, maybe Gorbachev appoints an ethnic a Kazak instead of an ethnic Russian in 1986. Maybe the attempted coup is avoided in '91.
And throughout, maybe better economic development and easy, matter-of-fact acceptance of religious liberty even during the Brezhnev years?
For Kazakhstan, maybe Gorbachev appoints an ethnic a Kazak instead of an ethnic Russian in 1986. Maybe the attempted coup is avoided in '91.
And throughout, maybe better economic development and easy, matter-of-fact acceptance of religious liberty even during the Brezhnev years?
CaliGuy
Banned
Kaliningrad probably wouldn't be enough to offset the pro-independence Balts, though.
I mean, 'equal to OTL 1990s Russia' is a low enough bar that it can be met fairly easily, yeah. Just slot the Balts in as the Chenya analogue and everything's fine (and they'll probably get treated a fair bit lighter, given the whole 'right next to NATO' thing.)
But a different fallout of Lenin's death in the '20s (preferably involving Stalin falling down some stairs), a more politically successful Khrushchev Thaw, or avoiding the '91 coup should all do it, really.
But a different fallout of Lenin's death in the '20s (preferably involving Stalin falling down some stairs), a more politically successful Khrushchev Thaw, or avoiding the '91 coup should all do it, really.
A million Russians in Kaliningrad + 20-30 % in the other three Baltic states who would be inclined to vote for remain, seems like a good enough chance and if it doesnt work out there's no real loss with the toxic waste dump Kaliningrad gone.