Could the US have gotten the southwest from Spain in an alternate version of Adams Onis?

raharris1973

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Could the US have gotten an even more favorable transcontinental treaty with Spain, perhaps involving the US purchasing Spanish Texas, New Mexico, and Alta California?

Perhaps by dragging the negotiations out further, while Spain's position in Latin America continued to decline?

Might things reach a sweet spot, where Spain realizes Mexico soon will be lost, so might as well take American cash for the northern peripheral territories that the Americans are interested in?

If this is the result, and the US has a treaty ratified by 1821-1822, will slave versus free status in the new territories be determined simply by extending the Missouri Compromise line west to the Pacific?
 

raharris1973

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I saw the Colorado river one and it is a good option that could make for significant change. Are there any reasons U.S. have any hesitancy about purchasing Spanish land west to the Pacific if the opportunity emerged? I do not think that Adams had developed squeamishness about expanding southwest by the early 1820s as he would later, since in the early 1820s he was prepared to help Monroe get Texas.

If Spain made the sale to make some money while they could, would the independent Mexican Empire or local hispanic settlers contest the sale? And if they did, would they have any success in doing so? The territories are very distant from the US after all. However, they are also distant from Mexico City. Smart US diplomacy would grant local grandees alot of effective autonomy in these territory while the US built up its transmississippi demography and infrastructure in the ensuing couple decades.
 
@raharris1973 the government of Spain needs to be different, and probably the tradition developed over a century needs to be altered
Barring that, I agree that the Colorado River (Texas) is the limit without war.
 
This brings up another question: If Spain kept Mexico, how would the USA expand? From what I know, Spain only lost Mexico because the conservatives led by Iturbide defected to the rebels' side due to a liberal coup in Spain. What if the liberal coup did not happen or was quickly defeated and Spain kept Mexico? How would the USA get the Southwest?
 
As mentioned in this thread multiple times, the Colorado River is the furthest the Spanish were willing to give.

However, that doesn't fully demarcate the boundary. I don't see why the 100th Meridian West would necessarily have to be used as the western boundary.

A western boundary along the Pecos and the continental divide doesn't that seem that implausible if the US is willing to pay up I think.
 
There's a roundabout way I can think of to get the US more territory out west however: Russia.

It was American Otter-ship captains who brought the first representatives of the Russian-American Company to Northern California. Have the Americans and Russians work together to jointly claim California north of Yerba Buena and at Adams-Onis Spain may acquiesce.
 
If America avoids the War of 1812 it will keep growing its presence in the Oregon country (including modern British Columbia), strengthen trade relations with Russia and Qing China, and also make the Astor family much richer.
 
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